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Feb 2nd 2018 at 12:48:20 AM •••

So regarding the Word of God entry about D.Va being revealed to not specifically be a professional Starcraft player, there's a bit of a back and forth regarding whether or not it was a retcon or a communication error, and I believe a lot of it is mainly the latter. Addressing certain points:

> Starcraft page calling her the 1 in the world for three consecutive years

This is addressed within the link that I provided in the entry of Michael Chu clarifying his original tweet, which he admits was somewhat poorly worded. The relevant excerpt:

"Going back to when we announced D.Va as a hero, we had been experimenting with using different methods of teasing new characters. We thought it'd be fun to use the Star Craft WCS site and slip D.Va in as she had a background as a pro gamer (this all happened before she was officially announced). At the time, I actually worried that it would be taken as canon, but I was hoping elements like the fact her preferred race was listed as "random" and the fact she couldn't have competed in the current series would help defray that. In hindsight, yeah... pretty confusing."

She originally had that Starcraft profile that was just meant to be a fun teaser through an already-established format in said profiles, and because it was relevant to her status as a gamer, not specifically as a pro Starcraft player. He even admits this was probably a slightly misleading idea in hindsight, but still, if you look at every even archived versions of D.Va's profile, it has always only simply listed her as "Pro Gamer (Formerly)", with nothing more specific, with the idea that "she was most known and specialized in a game with a skillset that was closer mapped to the skills that she (and the other MEKA pilots) utilized while piloting their mechs", and it seems that this was always intended to be the case by the whole writing team.

> interview with Jeff Kaplan himself calling her a "Starcraft pro"

The issue I take with this is 1) Jeff Kaplan is not Michael Chu, and 2) Jeff Kaplan is also not infallible in regards to the lore and has made minor lore mistakes in the past. If we're getting down to really specific details like that, Jeff repeatedly calls Bastion by "he"/"him pronouns" despite multiple verifications by Michael Chu that it's genderless and is referred to as "it" in the official bio and even in-universe in the comics.

Slip-ups happen, and so do sustained misconceptions even among the same team within the same company, and the writers behind things like that Starcraft 2 post (which I ALSO directly linked that says the same thing as that screencap [and the link's still perfectly functional for me btw]) are also not infallible, especially since it was likely written by a member of a separate team whose only real connection is working within the same company, writing about a character he doesn't have the full understandings of from what's effectively an entirely seperate game.

A Retcon is when something previously established has been retroactively rewritten and actively changed. Like I said, though, this technically was previously-established, albeit ambiguously, mainly by listing her as a "Pro Gamer", and as stated by Chu, it was meant to be taken of a game that's not Starcraft, which in no way contradicts this official, unchanged description.

While there is a fairly reasonable explanation as to why people jumped to the idea that "D.Va is specifically a pro Starcraft player" and why that stuck — it just makes a lot of sense — and people, some even within Blizzard itself didn't get the memo about this really specific detail, that does not make this revelation "retroactive continuity", because it doesn't change anything officially pre-established in the fiction by the main people behind writing it; this was simply an error by official sources within the same team (or in one broad case, one general company) used to describe it (that's what the Cowboy BeBop at His Computer pothole was for), but weren't consequential.

It's not a retcon. And even if it was, it would've been categorized in this page wrong.

Edited by number9robotic Hide/Show Replies
Feb 2nd 2018 at 4:25:03 AM •••

so she was advertized on a page for SC 2 players, she was the 1 starcraft players for three straight years, touring in other countries, but that doesn't make her a pro? we had Overwatch's lead designer telling us she was a starcraft pro, something that went uncontested by Chu for months, but that doesn't make her a starcraft pro? Blizzcon's 2015 panel has her called a starcraft champion, bu that doesn't make her a pro? And in the abscence of any other sources, why wouldn't we trust the game director?

Feb 2nd 2018 at 10:35:02 AM •••

I had just directly addressed those same points in that huge essay of a post you're responding to. If you're just going to pretend I didn't and won't address those rebuttal as is, we're kind of done here.

Edited by number9robotic
Feb 2nd 2018 at 12:06:28 PM •••

I just don't understand how you can acknowledge that they talked about her as a Starcraft player for years, but then not admit it's a retcon when they suddenly say that she actually wasn't pro starcraft player.

Feb 4th 2018 at 10:08:08 PM •••

> I just don't understand how you can acknowledge that they talked about her as a Starcraft player for years, but then not admit it's a retcon when they suddenly say that she actually wasn't pro starcraft player.

Posting this again:

"Going back to when we announced D.Va as a hero, we had been experimenting with using different methods of teasing new characters. We thought it'd be fun to use the Star Craft WCS site and slip D.Va in as she had a background as a pro gamer (this all happened before she was officially announced). At the time, I actually worried that it would be taken as canon, but I was hoping elements like the fact her preferred race was listed as "random" and the fact she couldn't have competed in the current series would help defray that. In hindsight, yeah... pretty confusing."

That page wasn't canon. It was never intended to be. It ended up confusing a lot of people who thought it was canon, but it's not canon, ergo it doesn't change anything established in the canon, ergo it's not a Retcon.

Edited by number9robotic
Feb 5th 2018 at 3:54:06 AM •••

The fact that Jeff used to call her a SC player, even if by accident, makes me think this qualifies as Flip-Flop of God, which covers that sort of thing.

Dec 22nd 2016 at 10:57:55 PM •••

About the entry about Jossed:

Are we really sure about the Tombstone jossing Gerard as a playable character? I mean, i guess it's not too far fetched but i think it's too early to say he is not alive. Jack Morrison also has a grave. And i don't see him being dead.

Just throwing that out. The panel didn't completely jossed the theory (At least for me). But for the sake of not contradicting canon, i will say it's a decent entry. (For now)

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Dec 23rd 2016 at 1:43:56 AM •••

Isn't it made very clear that he's dead? I mean, with Jack it was that they Never Found the Body, but the Legacy comic affirms that Gérard is indeed dead, so it's very likely that his body was found. The grave added just further shows that he's dead, which seems like direct confirmation to me. Why would Amélie visit a grave without anyone buried in it?

Unless somehow hinted or shown otherwise, I would say the theory that Gérard is still alive has been squashed.

Dec 23rd 2016 at 9:14:40 AM •••

I have a problem with the entry for a different reason.

Who are these "some people" who thought Gerard would be playable? Jossed requires that there be a theory or fanon that is prominent enough that when it's proven wrong, it has a huge impact. I've never heard of that theory before the entry, and it's not on the YMMV page for Fanon.

So ask: who are "some people"? Just like we said a long time ago, if Lazer is the only person who's heard of this, we cannot and should not trope it.

Dec 23rd 2016 at 3:16:49 PM •••

I've seen it brought up before, and the theory had gained a bit of traction. It wasn't as widespread as others, but I've heard "Gérard could still be alive" enough that I'd say the theory has been jossed.

Dec 23rd 2016 at 4:14:51 PM •••

"I've seen this before" isn't grounds for a trope, though. Jossed requires that a major segment of the fandom believed something that was later stated untrue.

If there's a large group of fans that believe it, please link us to a forum or something.

Edited by NubianSatyress
Nov 24th 2016 at 3:56:39 AM •••

I was wondering if an entry of Mythology Gag would work regarding a new interaction between McCree and Sombra that i found in the PTR.

While she wonder if the cowboy's real name is Jesse, he responds that his name is not Joel. From what i heard, before McCree was revealed, people used to call him Joel. Even Jeff Kaplan made a joke about this in Gamescon 2015 IIRC.

Edited by fasoman1996 Hide/Show Replies
Nov 2nd 2016 at 8:56:55 AM •••

I got a spoiler-related question I'd like to ask, if it's okay to add. They accidentally confirmed a detail a while back, and then changed it when they realized they goofed up. I've put my whole question in a spoiler, due to the nature of this.

Could I add the Overwatch Facebook page accidentally confirming that Jack Morrison/Soldier: 76 is Pharah's biological father as a Late-Arrival Spoiler? I remember a while back they accidentally said "yes" to someone asking that, and then they quickly realized that they goofed up and changed it. Seems like they gave a spoiler by accident, and tried to cover it up before people could see. Well, we've seen it, and it looks like the obvious truth has been confirmed. Here is an image of it.

The trope should look like this, if I it's okay to add it:

  • Late-Arrival Spoiler: The official Overwatch Facebook page confirmed a detail regarding the story by accident when replying to a comment. Though they quickly changed it, many caught on to it before it was changed. They accidentally confirmed the common theory that Pharah's father is in fact Jack Morrison aka Soldier: 76.

Edited by UltimateLazer Hide/Show Replies
Nov 2nd 2016 at 9:11:50 AM •••

I don't think this counts since Late-Arrival Spoiler only counts when it's featured on promotional material AND when the spoiler was revealed.

Maybe they screwed up on this, but so far it hasn't been confirmed, so i wouldn't include this. Though my personal headcanon is that Morrison is Pharah's dad

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