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Sep 13th 2010 at 11:12:58 AM •••

Okay, there are a few things I wanted to ask about this. (Edit: [[https://web.archive.org/web/20100825103215/http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HedonismTropes Here's what the page used to look like.)

  • First: Are those quotes at the beginning, or what?
    Most people want to be happy.
    Most people enjoy pleasure.
    Hedonism is everywhere
  • Second: What exactly does it mean by "unreasonable"? "Bad" seems to more or less stand on its own, but... well, you see what I'm asking.
  • Third: How is "The Hedonist" a strawman? It's not as if the people it describes don't exist, and if there were such a "straw" character portrayed negatively, I don't think the author would have "someone who wants everyone to be happy" in mind.
  • Anyway, fourth: What is with all the Sex Tropes (with assorted kinks) on the "good" side of the divider? Obviously, trying to make sex and pleasure completely separate things would be pointless, but it's nowhere having a monopoly on happiness, so I don't see any call for such a focus on it. (In fact, I wonder if they wouldn't be more at home at one of those indexes.)
  • That brings me to my fifth point, which is what brought me here in the first place: Why are Neutral Good and Chaotic Good showcased here, while Lawful Good isn't?

Edited by 99.129.240.21 Hide/Show Replies
Sep 15th 2010 at 4:09:46 PM •••

Ok, time for a revision.

First & Second: Replaced with a better intro.

Third: That made more sense when it was written. A long time ago, The Hedonist had a very strange trope description. I recommended that we kept it pretty much as it is with only minor clarifications and corrections, but rename it to Straw Hedonist. However, Fast Eddie then deleted a lot of the worst stuff, including the faked quote from the evil (and entirely fictional) ancient greek philosophy school hedonism. After that, we all agreed to keep the name and instead bring the trope in line with mainstream perceptions of non-ethical hedonism.

Fourth: Four tropes, therr oft them are not about sexuality per se but about containing your lust and living it out in a respectful and ethical manner. They stay. The fourth gets replaced by Safe, Sane, and Consensual.

As for only having sex tropes on the good side, I should have thought of adding Sex Is Evil, and I Am Horny to the bad side when I made it.

Also, changing the bad side from "bad" as in "evil" to "non-ethical", and adding Lovable Sex Maniac to the non-ethical side.

Sexuality should definitely not have any monopoly on pleasure, much less happiness! It would indeed be good to add some non-sexual tropes to the ethical-micro side. We already have Safe, Sane, and Consensual now, a trope that cover non-sexual activities as well as sexual. Any other suggestions?

Fifth: Oh, but you know the answer already, right? I tend to view Chaotic Good as teleology and Lawful Good as deontology, while Neutral Good is both. But as we have allready concluded, that's only one of many views on the alignments, and Lawful Good can be hedonistic too. Added it.

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