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Discussion Characters / DragonBallMajinBuu

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May 25th 2016 at 7:30:25 AM •••

Me and another troper are having a disagreement about whether Buu is the The Antichrist. I erased the entry because The Antichrist is a person or being born or created to bring about The End of the World as We Know It so evil can rule. They are also connected to The Legions of Hell.

Buu is none of this. He is an entity created from pure evil, but he doesn't want to destroy the world or the universe so evil can take over. He wants to kill and destroy because he likes doing it. He has no higher motives.

The troper in question put the entry back and since I don't want to start an edit war, I am bring it here. Can Buu fit the definition of The Antichrist.

Edited by Ramona122003 Hide/Show Replies
May 25th 2016 at 7:40:14 AM •••

Holy crap that's shoehorning. The only way to make it fit is dumb down the definition of The Antichrist to basically "really destructive being."

May 25th 2016 at 8:53:40 AM •••

Yeah, that's shoehorning in my book.

May 25th 2016 at 9:07:11 AM •••

Thought so, and the troper in question uncomment the example…sigh. I was trying not to report them.

May 25th 2016 at 9:16:12 AM •••

He didn't uncomment it. He just changed the CamelCase and used the edit reason to make his argument (which is really weak).

It's still commented out.

Edited by Larkmarn
May 25th 2016 at 9:19:49 AM •••

I see. Looking at it closely, the comments remain. It just really weird on how it looks on the edit page.

Dec 21st 2015 at 7:56:47 PM •••

Removed the following so that we can discuss a disagreement.

I'm not trying to be antagonistic, so let me just ask: what makes Super Buu special in this regard?

What villain DOESN'T throw a tantrum when things don't go their way in this series? Vegeta, Cell and Frieza ALL became frustrated enough to try and blow up the planet they were on and Frieza devolved into name-calling when he couldn't win. Goku, Fat Buu, and Kid Buu's man-childishness all go WAY beyond tantrums. They act like children by default. Super Buu, as far as I know, behaves NOTHING like them.

But, if there's a specific instance where Super Buu (after absorbing Piccolo) acts like a kid that isn't simply being angry because he can't win, I'll let this point go. Otherwise, I think this kind of grasping at straws.

Edited by KingZeal Hide/Show Replies
Dec 22nd 2015 at 12:39:03 AM •••

All the villains listed have entries under Psychopathic Manchild because they threw tantrums, among other things, when they couldn't win. And Buu nearly tore a hole through dimensions when he couldn't win. He also whines like a little kid about Vegito being stronger than him and calls him a cheater for fusion. After he thought he beat Vegito, he went across the planet, destroying everything in celebration, before raiding a bunch of candy stores.

Super Buu after he absorbs Piccolo is the same person. He is only smarter and a little calmer. However, he is still a Psychopathic Manchild.

Edited by Ramona122003
Dec 22nd 2015 at 5:47:30 AM •••

Axe it. Foil is probably the most misused trope on this site, and that basically demonstrates why. People more or less use it as a springboard for their own little analyses of characters without any insight as to what foil actually means or author intention.

Dec 22nd 2015 at 6:36:00 AM •••

Doesn't foil means the opposite of someone in one area or another. Like this hero is passionate and the their lancer, for example, is dispassionate? I don't think author's intention plays into this, unless you are talking about story narrative.

Dec 22nd 2015 at 7:25:10 AM •••

Close. A foil is a character who exists (or has certain traits) to emphasize the traits of another character.

Author intent is absolutely important. Otherwise every character is a foil for every other character. Finding a way characters aren't exactly the same is kind of possible for literally any pairing of characters. We could say that Majin Buu is a foil for Videl, because while they both have close relationships with Mr. Satan and are stronger, Videl is like Satan's Morality Pet and Satan is Buu's. Ignoring author intent turns Foil into a YMMV game, rather than a trope.

Dec 22nd 2015 at 7:36:12 AM •••

That doesn't quite work with Videl since their only connection is Mr. Satan.

Also, I do think author intent does come into play with Goku and Buu. One ongoing theme in Dragon Ball is that almost all the primary villains are Evil Counterparts to Goku. In this case, Majin Buu is Goku's childishness shown in a negative light. Like Goku being a manchild make him innocent and allows him to make good and selfish decisions, while Buu being a manchild makes him selfish and able to do many evil things. Although, that maybe less a foil than a Shadow Archetype.

The thing with author intent, unless the author directly tells you the intent, you can only really surmised from the narrative itself.

Dec 22nd 2015 at 10:31:17 AM •••

I'm not talking about Buu before he absorbed Piccolo. Saying that Buu and the one after him are the same is like saying Fat Buu is the same as Kid Buu because he only absorbed fat Kai.

DBZ treats each incarnation of Buu as both the same and yet different.

Other than that I partially agree with Lark. Foil is being really stretched here. I agree with Fat Buu and Kid Buu being foils to Goku only because they interact and demonstrate how alike but different they are.

Dec 22nd 2015 at 4:26:14 PM •••

I never said that Super Buu was the same as Fat or Kid Buu. Super Buu is a manchild and remains one ever after he absorbes Piccolo.

Dec 23rd 2015 at 5:38:05 PM •••

That isn't the point Lark or I are saying though. They may be "manchildren" but it is never used to contrast Goku there. Also, that was anime-only material IIRC.

For a character to be a Foil, there needs to be a narrative attempt to contrast two characters. That ONLY happens with Goku in regards to Fat and Kid Buu. Him going on a candy spree and throwing tantrums is really a stretch for the trope.

Dec 23rd 2015 at 5:43:44 PM •••

Super Buu is still a manchild no matter how you cut it. Him taking Piccolo doesn't change that.

Dec 23rd 2015 at 5:51:05 PM •••

The point again being: that doesn't make him a Foil.

Dec 23rd 2015 at 5:55:50 PM •••

I considered it a Foil since it contrast with how Goku is a manchild. And Lark's point that no form of Buu fits being a Foil, not just Super Buu. I am iffy since I can see it both ways, although I am ready to fully admit that Buu is a Shadow Archetype than a Foil.

Dec 23rd 2015 at 6:20:20 PM •••

As much as I just want to compromise and get this over with, Shadow Archetype feels even more misused in this context.

A Shadow Archetype is a character that highlights everything another character doesn't like in themselves. It isn't just a bad person with similarities to a good person. At no point, to my knowledge, is this emphasized in the story. At best, this is troper interpretation.

Dec 23rd 2015 at 6:42:37 PM •••

That is a different discussion all together and is way beyond the scope of this discussion. My point, is that I am willing to submit that Buu is not a Foil, however, Super Buu is just as much as a manchild as Fat and Kid Buu, except in a different way, regardless if he absorb Piccolo.

Dec 23rd 2015 at 8:24:17 PM •••

Meh. I guess that's one way of seeing it, even though don't agree 100%.

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