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Aversa was absolutely brainwashed. Not sure why this is an issue.
The more relevant question about her is whether shipping her with the Avatar counts as incest.
I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.
I mean, yeah, brainwashing is basically just overwriting someone's memories and personality so they do your bidding. Different journey, same destination.
I assume this is about Aversa. If so, yes, she was definitely brainwashed.
Which page is this contesting going on in?
Brainwashing and Fake memories are definitely two different horses. When you Brainwash someone you forcibly change their believes and attitudes. Forcibly changing their nature. When you implant false memories you change what they know but does it really change who they are. You can Brainwash someone to break them down making them obey or follow your agenda without choice, with false memories you change who they think they are, you change what they remember but can't "control" them.
Edited by Tuvok
They made her believe that the people she hated were actually her friends and that she should do what they say even though she previously opposed everything they stood for. That sounds like a change in her nature to me.
So even by your overly specific definition, it still counts.
Edited by Mimic1990
Consensus reached, query resolved. Deleted
Edited by Tuvok
No, brainwashing doesn't mean that your free-will has been magically curtailed. It might be, but brainwashing only really requires that a personality be forcibly altered. Brainwashed and Crazy is more specific in that it requires them to act violently against their allies. I'm really not clear on how "voluntarily attacks friends" is compatible with "still has their original personality".
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
I think I may have found the context for this query. It happened just over three years ago, which may explain why I wasn't finding anything recent.
This question got brought up in the "Is this an example?" thread back in 2017
. At the time, I was saying that I did not believe Aversa counted because I did not think she fulfilled the "crazy" part of Brainwashed and Crazy.
At the time of that writing, I thought that what was going on with Aversa was something more akin to More than Mind Control, with Validar using fake memories to get Aversa to feel gratitude towards him and be willing to commit atrocities for him. It did not really convey "crazy" to me, especially since Validar doesn't use any other magic as some form of direct control over her, and I felt that something that fits more along the lines of "someone takes advantage of someone's amnesia" was a better fit.
I mentioned in my last post on that subject that, in order to avoid a long back-and-forth between me and Monsund, I wanted to hear what other people had to say, but the discussion pretty much petered out after Monsund's reply to me.
Assuming I got the context right and that I am the "someone who keeps opposing the entry" being referred to, I see why I couldn't find any recent signs of entry contesting; it's referring to a discussion that happened over three years ago. I do find it odd that the phrase "keeps opposing" is used since the original disagreement was a discussion from way back that just never got resolved and not something that kept going on after the discussion petered out.
Edited by dragonfire5000
This seems like a discussion that should take place in Trope Talk, really.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
So there's a character in Fire Emblem Awakening, whose backstory involves her being kidnapped as a teenager by people she hates, having her entire memory and personality erased to the point she no longer remembers her parents or even her name, and then all this being replaced with a Fake Memories magically implanted into her mind. She is then used to carry out her kidnapper's bidding.
The character describes herself as a ""A girl enslaved mind, body, and soul" and the official sources use "pawn" and "puppet to describe her, with the Fire Emblem wiki(link
, ) describing her with the word, "brainwashed."
The reason I put this here is someone keeps contesting this example and saying she wasn't brainwashed, even though there is a similar character listed from Sailor Moon. I wanted to know what ATT thinks? Does that count as an example of Brainwashed and Crazy?
Edited by Monsund