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You are overestimating the importance of "republics". There's currently very little difference between those and ordinary federal subjects ("oblast") in terms of autonomy in Russia, if any. They are definitely not "countries."
Edited by Asherinka
I know they're not countries and that any "autonomy" is de facto limited. But in finding a way to highlight the cultures and languages endemic to the region, I believe they can be useful divisions.
Edited by mahidevrans
^^ I would support including the various republics on these grounds. But perhaps the heading should be changed to "regions" to accommodate the fact that many are not independent.
I think most of the Russia-related tropes are fine, as the whole Caucasus was part of the USSR and was important in The Great Politics Mess Up and the Stalin era, and Russia is still culturally and politically influential in the region today.
However, I would remove Red Scare and Soviet Superscience as they are primarily about the cold war in the West. Socialist Realism also seems tangential as well.
"It's just a show; I should really just relax"
Thanks for your response naturalironist! I concur with the removal of the tropes you mentioned in your last paragraph. There are a few others I think should be removed after consideration:
- The Great Politics Mess Up — Trope Decay in action. This is often used interchangeably with the end of the Cold War and the breakup of the Soviet Union but the trope is actually "Political assumptions in a work get smashed by real-world events" (per laconic). I'd axe it from the list.
- Chummy Commies and Dirty Communists — Also primarily about the Cold War in the west.
- Orthodox Christianity — Don't feel strongly either way, but if kept, Islam should be added as well.
- Russian Mythology and Tales — not really relevant to the Caucasus, which has its own epos.
Russians with Rifles is missing information about the Russian Empire in the Caucasus, but that can be fixed easily enough with Wiki Magic.
Would love to hear additional opinions (especially from mods) before any changes are made.
Edited by mahidevrans
^^ I'd keep Orthodox Christianity (because it is so integral to Georgia and Armenia) and add Islam. I agree with the rest.
Edited by Asherinka
Thanks for the feedback! If there are no additional objections or suggestions, I'll implement the changes for a more focused list within the next day.
Due to term confusion during the creation of Circassian Beauty, it was suggested that I create a Useful Notes page for The Caucasus for users unfamiliar with the geographical term. I did exactly that before launching the trope yesterday, providing a brief description that can be built upon in the future to provide more detail.
Cooking Cat has made useful contributions to the page. However, I strongly disagree with a few of their additions and changes, and wanted to bring it up for discussion so it need not come to an edit war.
The main point of contention is the inclusion of Russia on the page, or rather to what extent it should be included. The Caucasus region undoubtedly includes Russia, but only a very small part of Russia. The Russian Caucasus primarily consists of Republics
that are given a greater level of autonomy while remaining federal subjects. These autonomous republics are dominated by indigenous non-Slavic minorities. The only exception is the Republic of Adygea, an enclave within Krasnodar Krai, which probably has to do with the fact that most Circassians in the region were killed or expelled to the Ottoman Empire in the 1864 genocide.
I added these seven republics as a section beneath the "Countries" list, although they do not yet have their own Useful Notes pages (which I am willing to create in time). Cooking Cat then deleted them, stating that they cluttered the page and that it was just more "convenient" because they "are all part of the Southern and North Caucasus Federal Districts anyways".
I disagree with this decision. As I described in a message, "these republics are an important part of the North Caucasus political landscape, and concentrate many ethnic minorities and endemic languages of the region, so [they] should be given attention although not independent nations."
The second point of disagreement was the inclusion of Russia-related (as well as Soviet-related) articles in the "related" section. I don't have any problem with those that are of direct relation to the North Caucasus. But I see the section of the page at risk for becoming bloated with Russia/Soviet-related articles with only tangential relation the Caucasus. As it stands, only five of the articles listed are of real relevance to the region: Armos with Armor, The Chechnya Wars, Circassian Beauty, The Crimean War (in which there was a Caucasian front), and Nart Sagas.
Cooking Cat explained via private message that the inclusion of the tropes is justified as the Caucasus was part of the Soviet Union, and that Wikipedia lists Russia as part of the Caucasus.
Looking for solutions on how we can best handle this page at the moment.
Edited by mahidevrans