The Touhou Character Alternate Interpretation Compendium

The Grand Unified Theory is in Chiyuri and Yumemi's dimension, not the one bordering Gensokyo. Your arguement fails.

Also, how does Renko and Maribel being in the future work, exactly? I mean, we have Sanae and her gods, who just came into Gensokyo a few years ago, and they're obviously from present-day Gensokyo. (Of course, half the fanworks involving Renko and Mary ignore the "future" bit anyways, including the one by Muffin.)

edited 5th Apr '10 3:11:00 PM by CapedLuigisYoshi

a.k.a. Cly, that one girl who doesn't post here much anymore Something something YI = SMW 2 = SMB 5.

Well, what's the generally canonical reason the Boundary exists in the first place? It's because the Youkai are dangerous to the people of the outside world (being monsters), and the people of the outside world are dangerous to the Youkai (being numerous, industrialized and very good at killing things either intentionally or by negligence), and if they stuck around too much longer the Youkai would probably get wiped out. So a little pocket world was made where they could exist safely, and a small (manageable?) number of humans could coexist with them. If the border collapsed, there'd probably be some chaos on this side, but it's not the outside world that'd come out the worst for it.

Breaching the border enough to bring something through, person or object, in either direction, is only as dangerous as that person or object, provided you're sure that doing so isn't going to shatter the whole thing (and I'd presume that she'd be able to tell if she was permanently weakening it). Unless they get astronomically unlucky and Yuka happens to find and wander into one of their openings (and do we even know whether those remain open for more than a few seconds?), they won't hurt anything unless they break it entirely, which is what she is talking about in that quote. And what they presumably take pains to avoid.

Your funny quote here! (Maybe)

^^ Renko says her major is grand unified physics. She also mentions that they've discovered the smallest particle that can be measured with anything less than the total energy of the universe. The implication is that physics is "done". The same implication applies to the other PC-98 thing, but I'd imagine that's just because ZUN's interested in that kind of thing.

^ Yes, the border exists to protect the youkai and other mythological entities. It's basically an endangered species sanctuary. It's also sort of implied that people stumble into it quite consistently, so it's not like breaches suddenly blow up the world.

edited 5th Apr '10 3:24:33 PM by Clarste

Heh, a thought just occurred: If physics is "done", as you put it, does that mean that a physics degree in their future is the equivalent of an English degree in the present day?

Your funny quote here! (Maybe)

Huh, so not only is Maribel able to detect but not cross the boundary, but there's also others who manage to stumble into Gensokyo completely by accident despite Mary and Renko actively trying to enter it? The irony.

Here's a thought - if Maribel's traveling to Gensokyo in her dreams, wouldn't the youkai of boundaries notice? Has Maribel's visits flown under the sleepy Yukari's radar, or is there another reason, simple or ominous, that the two haven't met?

Current earworm: "Mother ~ Outro"

Do we really know that they're completely unsuccessful in their efforts to cross? Is it explicitly stated? I only read the first of those four links, the one with the cemetery, but it sure looked like they were capable of breaching the border there, even if they didn't go through themselves. Neither has the power to brute-force it or simply declare "This border is now weak in this spot because I say so", but they do seem capable of figuring out the way to open a hole.

Your funny quote here! (Maybe)

I assume Yukari takes great care not to appear or meet Maribel directly.

Perhaps she knows Maribel's influence on Gensokyo is either benign or beneficial, and does not want to upset the balance of that?

She also watches my Maribel's journeys through Johto. I can sense it, although I wonder why she doesn't comment in my thread. Perhaps there's a balance there that must be preserved?

The three finest things in life are to splat your enemies, drive them from their turf, and hear their lamentations as their rank falls!

So here's the deal: I'm not hijacking the thread, but Fawriel expressed some concerns about not being able to get into the mindset of the psychotic character we'll be looking at next, and asked me to write up her intro. Implications about my own sanity aside, here's what I came up with, formatting errors and all. Hope I'm not springing it too soon, but it looked like the Maribel/Renko discussion had petered out. Without further ado:

...

...

Yuuka Kazami

Appearance/voice: ??? (open to suggestions)

Themes: Lotus Love, Sleeping Terror, Dream Land, Inanimate Dream, and Gensokyo, Past and Present ~ Flower Land. and Flower of Japan

Traits:

• Sadistic, violent. Attacks anyone, youkai or human, who bothers her or her flowers. "I was just teasing them. It’s a daily thing." Enjoys antagonizing others.
• Toys with those she views as weaker than her ("I won’t fight anyone seriously with your level of power"), but a bit of a Blood Knight. Not really interested in "normal" humans or youkai, only challenging opponents. Afraid of no one, goddess or yama.
• Affably Evil? Described as polite when visiting a flower shop, though Hieda no Akyu advises readers not to underestimate or aggravate her. Doesn’t seem to mind an audience when she’s battling (she probably enjoys the attention), and her duels are said to be quite beautiful to watch.
• Prefers overwhelming physical force to battle magic, perhaps the better to enjoy the tactile sensation of tearing apart foes?
• Says it with hearts ♥, even when she’s talking about murdering you.
• Green Thumb, which she uses to kill people.
• "Youkai moe~," though Fawriel has pointed out that this may be a quite clever/incredibly lame pun (moe = "budding").

Quotes (pre-Windows):

• "In a few hours, you'll become a mist of atoms. ♥ ...I thought it'd be neat if that actually happened. ♥"
• "You humans are so full of yourselves. If you want to live a long life, then you should be more quiet."
• "Hm, something smells weak... Well, you've got guts. ♥ But I could kill you instantly."
• "Genocide is just another game. It doesn't matter if it's humans or Makai residents."

Quotes (Windows):

• "Watch. In just a moment you'll be able to see flowers."
• "Do you know why flowers can be a symbol of death as well as happiness? That's because they're the same as humans. Souls gather, flowers bloom, when souls leave flowers scatter."
• And
  Mystia: Sunflowers spin and spin, sunflowers turn and turn,
  Sunflowers spin and spin, body blow~♪
  Yuuka: And that's where the bird is fried in spices~♪

Relationships/Shipping:

• Old acquaintances with Reimu, Marisa, and Alice. They don’t seem to come visit too often, for some reason...
• Apparently some people bundle her with Wriggle Nightbug under the logic that "bugs pollinate flowers." Poor little guy gal.

Tentative write-up: So, Yuuka. Or sometimes Yuka. Youkai of flowers, the original wielder of the Master Spark, one of the few PC-98 characters to make the jump to the Windows games, and by most accounts a tad psychotic.

First encountered in the fourth Touhou game, when Reimu and Marisa break into her house, wake her up, and fight her. In the next entry she "goes out to play" and invades Makai in search of a challenging battle, leaving all who oppose her broken and in tears. Then in Phantasmagoria of Flower View she romps around enjoying the flowers and wailing on anyone who mistakes her for the culprit... or makes the mistake of blundering into her sunflowers... or has the misfortune of just bumping into her.

Described as more of a "manifestation of nature" than a youkai, perhaps due to her plant origin? A "youkai-like youkai," a supernatural being on a whole other level than her neighbors. One of the oldest and most dangerous entities in Gensokyo. Better tiptoe through the tulips...

Similar characters:

• Flandre Scarlet: similarly dangerous/insane, though Flan has more Dere while Yuuka seems to be mostly Yan
• Yukari Yakumo: another old, powerful youkai, just much less prone to savaging passersby.

---

And there she is. What’s up with Yuuka? Why is she so psychotic? Or is that an unfair accusation, since Gensokyo seems to be a violent place, and youkai are expected to be a bit predatory. Is she a dangerous force of nature, misunderstood, or a woobie with a tragic backstory? Just how much of a personality shift is there between her PC-era and Windows appearances? What happened to Elly and her mansion? If she’s the original user of the Master Spark, an "annihilation of love," how does she power it? Is she the ultimate yandere, or yangire, or what? And is the extra u really needed?

edited 6th Apr '10 7:22:55 PM by Tacitus

Current earworm: "Mother ~ Outro"

The extra "u" would be useful when saying "Yuukarin", to differentiate from Yakumo.

• insert The More You Know picture*

a.k.a. Cly, that one girl who doesn't post here much anymore Something something YI = SMW 2 = SMB 5.

Yes, the extra 'u' is needed. Especially if you want to use the 'Yuukarin' nickname.

So, right, her personality. She's basically defined by her two most recent appearances; MS and PoFV. In Mystic Square she's a violent sadist that invades Makai on the basis of genocide being fun. In Phantasmagoria of Flower View she still has a bit of a sadistic streak, but isn't really any more violent than anyone else, rarely leaves her garden, and generally seems to be old and somewhat wise. Fan versions tend to be somewhere between the two. Even the nastiest ones aren't the psychopathic monster of MS, but she's generally more vicious than relatively relaxed PoFV version.

Also; PC-98 patterns didn't have names; her Wave-Motion Gun isn't necessarily the same as Marisa's.

edited 6th Apr '10 8:00:58 PM by Hylarn

I actually prefer the relaxed version, myself.

^^ Considering that Boss!Marisa's Master Spark in IN works a lot like Yuuka's move in LLS...

I have a message from another time...

^^^Patchy's Non-Directional Laser didn't originally have a name, either.

I think this would work best with application of Occam's Razor. Marisa stole Master Spark. Considering her kleptomania, one would think that it would just be taken as fact.

edited 6th Apr '10 8:14:30 PM by CapedLuigisYoshi

a.k.a. Cly, that one girl who doesn't post here much anymore Something something YI = SMW 2 = SMB 5.

And she also stole the Nondirectional laser.

True, in PCB, one could make the argument that it wasn't the same move, but IN!Boss!Marisa used the move in exactly the same way Patchy does, so it's pretty much canon that she stole the move from her.

By the same token, IN!Boss!Marisa uses Master Spark like a weakened version of LLS Yuka; she makes a guiding laser, fires the thing and boxes the player in with expanding waves of other bullets at the same time.

I have a message from another time...

PC-98 stuff is Canon Discontinuity. It doesn't really mean anything vis a vis master spark and whatnot.

That said, I do like her psychotic personality even though there's not much support for it in Po FV.

What about stuff like Alice referring to having met Reimu before, in PCB? The only other time they met was in a PC-98 game.

Not to mention references to that time in other games, like, for example, Reimu and Marisa's themes in IN.

I have a message from another time...

Does Yuuka have any dialouge with Reimu and Marisa in PoFV suggesting having met them before? I'm pretty sure I heard she does, but I'm not certain.

And PC-98 stuff hasn't really been kicked out of canon.

a.k.a. Cly, that one girl who doesn't post here much anymore Something something YI = SMW 2 = SMB 5.

Alice met Reimu at some other point. There's absolutely no way to fit their MS meeting into continuity, what with Alice being at least twice the age she was in MS. It's just a Mythology Gag.

Edit: Reimu recognizes Yuuka. Again, they could have met elsewhere.

edited 6th Apr '10 8:36:56 PM by Hylarn

Yes:

During Yuka's scenario:

Yuka: Do you think that ignoring the events back then, would bring everything back to normal?

Reimu: Everything went back to normal when I defeated you back then!

Yuka goes on to say she's talking about the flower event 60 years previous, but Reimu's pretty clearly talking about Lotus Land Story here.

I have a message from another time...

Mythology Gags. The fact that the characters look different, act different, have different powers, and live in a subtly different setting implies to me that there's no continuity.

And I mean, Maria's stated goal in LLS was stealing Yuka's power.

I have a message from another time...

Whenever I think about the Flower Master of the Four Seasons, I always think of her portrayal in Yuka vs. Yukari, the doujin by Chado. Totally psychotic, but not quite pure "evil" in the sense of having an overarching motive beyond mere bloodlust. That's the portrayal that really became ingrained into my view.

However, I personally prefer to see her as being a bit more polite and mellow owing to her long life, as Perfect Memento in Strict Sense seems to imply. I still think she's probably sadistic and a compulsive liar, but she'll at least be civil and courteous about it even as she blasts you to bits. This is how I wrote her character in my Let's Play of Labyrinth of Touhou.

One other question I really want to consider is just where Yuka stands on the power level tiers of Gensokyo. Then again, power levels can be serious business, so maybe I should refrain...

The cow eats Fruit Loops at midnight.

You sure Alice is that much older? For all we know, she could have had her appearance changed due to the grimore.

Power changes? I don't believe any characters had clearly-defined powers back in the PC-98 days.

Again, Occam's razor. Easiest to assume they're talking about the games they each first appeared in.

(Plus, it's not like all fans use the same canon anyways. How many Marisa pairings are there?)

a.k.a. Cly, that one girl who doesn't post here much anymore Something something YI = SMW 2 = SMB 5.

No, Occam's razor says they're different because they have different names.

edited 6th Apr '10 8:56:26 PM by Clarste

PC-98 Yuuka was stupidly overpowered, soloing an entire dimension while treating it as a game. Windows Yuuka is stated to be quite powerful, but Akyuu didn't seem to think she was on the level of monsters like Flandre or Yukari.