It's a Gundam thread!

Is that basically... The first time a character in Gundam straight up came Back From The Dead?

Edited by dood9780 on Jul 7th 2018 at 10:18:55 AM

Uhhhh... Kinda. Except it's apparently trading one life for another.

Speaking of, This seems very OOC for Setsuna. If he really was tired of Earth's state of affairs, he wouldn't still be working for Celestial Being, right?

And finishes Zeta Gundam. Wow what an ending. It's just so amazingly sobering and it's the complete opposite of the original series. In OG they lose the gundam but nearly everyone survives and they all reunite in the end even though their home is gone. Here... well, at least the Gundam survived? Wow. That and it's explicitly a cliffhanger with Axis as the sequel hook whilst MSG didn't have one.

Might watch some of the miniseries first before I go into ZZ.

But yea, Zeta was an excellent show. Loved the Mecha, the fights, and the plot. Quattro was a great character. I like how sympathetic he was in that there's points where you get it, but there's other points where he's still the same uncaring individual he always was.

It was neat to have Amuro back. The show uses the old cast better than Korra used ATLA's cast, that's for sure. Kai and Sayla not so much, but yeah, Sayla's actor's unavailability, I know.

I liked the titans a lot, but Jamitov and Bask were just kind of there by the end.

Lot's of mechs from the end need some figures, but Sarah and Reccoa's were just boring. Like they look so uninteresting. Not like the Hi-Zacks, or the Barzams, or the Nemo' who've got a charm to their plain-ness, these ones just kind of suck.

Scirocco was a great villain. Again, loved how slimy he was. I do like the conversation he has near the end where he admits he thinks people are too stupid to rule themselves and he has to do it. 10/10 great villain, would send pictures of my feet when he asks.

Jerid was a neat rival, for most of the series. I do like him at the start where he's this arrogant flyboy who get's knocked down a few pegs. He's a great Villainous Underdog and you kind of feel for him. I like that he grows as a person, but that just makes him more evil. He learns to help his comrades, be a calmer head in a fight, and team-build, but he also comes to believe in the Titans and their authoritarian mission. He always did, but it got stronger and he's not just some show off jock anymore, he's a man who wants to bring the universe under-heel.

And then episode 30 happens and... Well reading the tropes page it seems he was supposed to die there and I can kind of see it. Jerid stops being the Char to Kamille's Amuro and kind of becomes more of an Elite Mook. Like his Byarlant was cool, and the idea that Kamille let's the rivalry go while Jerid get's more obsessed is good, but Jerid loses a lot of the introspection and character work he had at the start because the narrative is juggling Scirocco and Haman need the development. That's why it's sad Mouar died. Like of all the deaths in the series hers was the one I feel we lost the most from. Jerid really needed someone to play off of and without them he becomes a far less interesting character. I'll admit that his final battle was an interesting take on the rival, at least.

I liked Gady as well I suppose. He was minor as hell, but it was neat that after Jamaican bites it, the replacement actually likes Jerid and fields him a lot more. I like that small scene with Haman where she's up to something and he just allows it, possibly wanting her to sabotage their laser. It was surprising that he ended up outliving... basically all of the Titans except Scirocco. That'd be like if Clamp survived the attack on White Base and shows up at A Baoa Que and outlives all the Zabis.

Yazan was brilliant. Wow that was a crazy dude. And the Hambrabi was a cool suit as well.

The only place it falters is in its themes, I suppose. It's 80s, and I'll accept that. But the whole "Newtypes are the future" was BS and I got dizzy from rolling my eyes at "earth's gravity weighs our souls down", and man that quote pops up a lot. It also doesn't jive well with later stuff, but that makes sense; multiple writers and all. The weird focus on the differences between men and women also kind of sucked. It's got that condescending women are inherently more docile mindset to it. I'm giving it the benefit of the doubt because that tends to crop up from Scirocco and Reccoa, who're supposed to be bad people and Kamille and he's not supposed to be right.

I kind of wished a few more people made it out to appear in other shows. Like it was cool to see Dr. Hasan in Unicorn. That's kind of why I wanted Apolly to make it. He's not that important and I could see him crop up elsewhere, but oh well. I liked his death to, it was like Matilda's in MSG. They weren't the most important character, but they were consistently there and losing them makes you miss that continued presence.

The show has such a good final bit with Kamille and the Hyaku Shiki floating passed, it's cockpit open.

Is there any reason Cronicle Asher needs to wear a goofy ninja mask when piloting? I mean obviously head protection when piloting but I wonder if he's ordered to put the goofy mask on by his superiors or if its his own thing? Like, when he sorties he goes "Oh I gotta go into battle? Hold on gang I gotta put my Jago costume on." That's hilarious.

....I'm not the only one who thought of Jago when I saw Asher's mask am I?

I believe it's mentioned early on that he wears it because the air on Earth gives him respiratory issues? But it's an obvious Hand Wave and never really comes up again.

Given how spectacularly polluted the Earth is shown to be throughout Victory (right up to beaches buried in the bones of dead sea-creatures), it’s a perfectly sensible reason to wear a mask. Chronicle’s headgear also appears to be a fireproof racing balaclava, which is another extremely sensible thing for a pilot to wear.

Ah okay I guess that makes sense.

The problem is that, if that's the case, then why does no one else wear one? I didn't call it a Hand Wave because it's unreasonable, I called it a Hand Wave because it's a clearly Doylist choice (Chronicle wears a mask because it adds some visual flair to his character design) with a throwaway line to serve as a Watsonian explanation ("uh, the air is bad or something, yeah"). If it was "people on Earth wear filter-masks because of how badly the air is polluted" (or even just Zanscare people, since they're not used to it) that would be one thing. But it's not. It's just Chronicle, and his supposed respiratory problems don't come up in any other context ever, so it's clearly an excuse to have Chronicle wear a mask and nothing else.

It shows that Chronicle is unusually fastidious, cautious, and practically-minded - the opposite of Char, the reckless daredevil who famously had to be talked into wearing a spacesuit while piloting. In fact, Chronicle’s whole aesthetic is ‘negative Char’ - red hair, yellow uniform, and a mask that covers everything but his eyes. There’s some visual storytelling there.

Edited by Iaculus on Jul 15th 2018 at 4:09:49 PM

Yeah, but my point is that's still a Doylist reason for the mask, not a Watsonian reason. The Watsonian reason, "the air or something, whatever", is just a Hand Wave to (barely) justify the true Doylist reasoning.

Not exactly? A character’s personality exists within the show. A character wearing the sort of thing that it makes sense for someone with their particular personality to wear is not really Doylist. Chronicle doesn’t have respiratory issues, but he’s definitely the sort of person who’d wear a mask to avoid developing them, or go for the frankly slightly silly safety-consciousness of wearing a fireproof balaclava inside a spacesuit.

Well finished Mobile Suit Gundam 0080: War in the Pocket. A great kick in the teeth. Easily one of the best Gundam animes I've seen. That total is at 3 now. MSG, Zeta, and 0080. Meh.

According to the wiki, Carioca is in this. He was in Flanagan Boone's platoon in the original series. He had the "Zeon Accent" that was too thick and ordered not to talk while Boone was in the White Base. Where was he in 0080?

08th MS Team time is now?

I just love the RX-79[G] so much. Probably my favorite basic Gundam-y Gundam.

Speaking of mecha, ahhhh the Kampfer is so great. Though my saying that will probably make Jovian (I think it was him?) pop up and point out that it was facing down the Worfiest of Worfs.

But probably my favorite Zeon design.

Yup, Kampfer is a cool design, but its one and only fight scene is a joke. The Federation MS it slaughters at no point react to is presence in any way even as it destroys them all. It's a really cool scene in terms of making the Kampfer look badass, but as a fight scene it's laughable.

I don't even think it's done to prove a point.

For example, Kampfer getting mowed down by the Alex's secondary weapon (seriously, those gatlings are baller as hell but they're not meant to be a primary weapon, they probably wouldn't even scratch a Dom) anticlimactically when the Kampfer is drawing its beam saber is probably done to push the futility of war and all that sweet sweet Do Not Do This Cool Thing jazz. But the Kampfer's initial charge doesn't seem to even be doing that.

I mean, unless the point is the Worf Effect, which I suppose is valid in its own right.

Edited by Larkmarn on Jul 16th 2018 at 11:24:27 AM

Yeah, it's just nested jobbing. The Scarlet Team jobs to Kampfer to build up the Kampfer, then the Kampfer jobs to Alex to build up Alex. The Scarlet Team's demise was just particularly jobtacular. For as much shit as I give the scene, I do give them credit for making it fun and interesting to watch even though it's literally just a half-dozen Feddie MS standing or floating around while Kampfer blows them up like it's target practice. The way the scene is directed is really dynamic and exciting — it's just the fight that isn't.

People also tend to call out the Kampfer for having tinfoil armor since it got perforated by the Alex so quickly, but the Alex's forearm gatlings are 90mm cannons — same as the standard GM machine gun. It's probably lower muzzle velocity because of the shorter barrel, but at that range it's not going to make that much of a difference. We've seen the 90mm GM machine gun take out Doms (albeit at similarly close range — Shiro does it right before the Gouf Custom fight in 08th MS Team), so it's a reasonably powerful weapon.

0080 does have a lot of lackluster fighting honestly. The GM's in particular just come across as chumps, but it makes sense. Zeon mooks have names to them, Federation one's don't even have faces, Nominal Importance at its finest. 0080 just isn't really the anime for fight scenes, Intended Audience Reaction probably, but whatevs.

I appreciated the final fight for being engaging on top of hitting us with the work's themes, but the rest are all just average to meh. We're here for the tragedy and drama after all.

Edited by DrPsyche on Jul 16th 2018 at 7:58:20 AM

If you're referring to the scene I think you are, that was the standard 100mm Ground Gundam's machine gun.

It's a mixed bag, more than anything else. The Zeon attack on the Arctic base is a slaughter (but hey, at least those GMs shoot back), and the Kampfer fight I've already mentioned, but the Alex vs Zaku fight is fantastic, and IIRC there's a mook vs mook fight in episode two that's pretty decent (involving enemy units engaging and exchanging fire and then withdrawing intact, rather than mindlessly attacking until one side or the other is dead! What a concept!).

Huh, fair point, I'd forgotten that GM machine gun we see in 08th MS Team is different than the one that shows up in 0083.

I think it's stated in some supplemental info that the smaller-caliber machine guns do have better armor penetration than the 100mm-plus guns.

I guess the space battle kind of counts. The GM's were getting dunked on, but I think one killed a Zaku. Meh.

Still, I really like the idea of the Zeeks driving trucks with weapons on them and leaving them in strategic places for a potential battle. That was such an interesting and simple idea. I like that even the Feddies picked up on it and sought to tow them afterwards.

What show are ya guys talking about?

What’s the Kampher?

Edited by slimcoder on Jul 17th 2018 at 1:30:04 AM

War In The Pocket.

The Kampfer is a late-OYW Zeon MS (designation MS-18E; there's an F-type that packs beam weapons) designed for maximum gottagofast: lots of thrusters and verniers, disposable kinetic weapons and no beam weapons because the power drain on the reactor would reduce mobility, simple construction that allows it to be smuggled in piecemeal and reassembled by guerrillas behind enemy lines. The price for these, however, is that it's got pretty much zero armor (even the skirt armor protecting the leg joints has been removed) to the point even vulcans can tear it apart. In the hands of a good pilot, it can zip in, tear shit up and escape without anything short of a Gundam being able to keep up with it; it's not meant to stand and fight like a Gelgoog.

Edited by amitakartok on Jul 17th 2018 at 10:47:24 AM

So...chalk it up to another Zeon flight of fancy? All those experimental suits basically lost Zeon the war so...

Hey shove off, the technology of glorious Zeon was flawless! Didn't you see the Zakurello? The Marine Zaku? Rick Dom II, electric boogaloo? And the always versatile, Grublo? Yee of little faith, Feddie apologist.