Restore on main namespace: Incest Yay

The Fetish Fuel page itself is a Troper Tales subcategory, and the works that have Fetish Fuel namespaced subpages, work as such: People listing their various personal turn-ons.

No other trope page is redirected to Fetish Fuel, not even Ho Yay, Foe Yay, and the rest of those. Our current system is clearly suppoed to make a difference between Troper Tales and Audience Reaction Tropes, and Incest Yay is the latter.

While examples like "Alice and her brother, Bob, were written with lots of sexual tension in this show", or "The Alice And Bob show's fandom has a whole incest shipping sub-fandom, called ABCest", are undoubtedly subjective statements, deserving a banner, and no coverage on work pages, they are still more than Troper Tales.

edited 23rd Oct '10 3:35:12 AM by EternalSeptember

There are definitely works with real subtext like this apart from mere fetish fuel or shipping goggles. Why was it moved, anyway?

Probably because "incest" has more than one syllable. It just doesn't sound right!

^ Huh? The page still exists with that title, just under the Fetish Fuel namespace.

By the way, Bro Yay and Sis Yay are redirects used in the appropriate situations.

^ i believe HMM was expressing opposition to the current "this doesn't sound as catchy" or "it's too long, people won't use it" way we're renaming tropes. expressing this via Sarcasm Mode, that is.

anyway, i agree, i don't think Incest Yay should be in Fetish Fuel if the other "yay" tropes aren't there.

By the way, I don't think that all of them should be moved to Fetish Fuel, either, the two concepts are clearly different.

Bump.

This is definitely in the wrong namespace. The Fetish Fuel namespace is for cataloging instances of Fetish Fuel within a given work. Incest Yay is a trope. Or a YMMV, or whatever. But definitely not a work.

it makes sense for YMMV, but definitely not as Fetish Fuel. A troper might recognize that subtext is there, or that the fandom commonly think it is, without actually finding it fetish fuel themselves.

But Feytish Fuelis itself a YMMV — what someone with a foot fetish regards as Fetish Fuel, someone who doesn't have a foot fetish won't consider Fetish Fuel That's why the -Yays are Fetish Fuel — whether you find it sexually attractive (or even present) vary from person to person.

Basically the Fetish Fuels are a subcategory of YMMV — YMMV that is sexual in nature.

Only it is literally the only fetish trope to be under "Fetish Fuel" The Fetish Fuel tag is for listing the things in the shows that turns you on, not for the things themselves. ANYTHING could be "Fetish Fuel" by your logic.

edited 22nd Oct '10 7:32:15 PM by MONEYMAN

But there are definitely instances where this kind of subtext was deliberately added. For example, there's a series showing now called Ore Imo that has three adaptations. The anime has very little of this, while the manga is apparently stuffed full of Incest Yay. The original novel falls somewhere in between.

While people might consider if fetish fuel, this seems closer to UST to me than something like Fetish Fuel. Though for some it is fetish fuel.

edited 22nd Oct '10 9:13:24 PM by Arha

I might note that Ho Yay, meanwhile, is not listed as a Turn On Trope. Just as a subjective. Since they're handled in very similar ways by writers, this one should probably get the same treatment.

edited 23rd Oct '10 2:14:18 AM by Iaculus

But Feytish Fuelis itself a YMMV — what someone with a foot fetish regards as Fetish Fuel, someone who doesn't have a foot fetish won't consider Fetish Fuel That's why the -Yays are Fetish Fuel — whether you find it sexually attractive (or even present) vary from person to person. Basically the Fetish Fuels are a subcategory of YMMV — YMMV that is sexual in nature.

According to the Fetish Fuel page, it is something that:

"causes sexual arousal in the viewer." ... "anything can end up being someone's fetish... even if there is no actual sexual subtext in something, a viewer can still be turned on." ... See Turn On Tropes for a list of tropes that are often fetish fuel. "It's all subjective... this is Troper Tales."

From Turn On Tropes:

"An index of tropes that are commonly regarded as sexy (many involving Fetish Fuel). These are objective tropes. They just also happen to be turn-ons for a lot of people."

So Turn On Tropes is the place for tropes that turn certain people on, and Fetish Fuel is for individual tropes listing what turns them on.

Incest Yay isn't a page for natter about "incest turns me on", "yeah, me too" "me too" "me too", it's a page for works that have incestous subtext. The editors who added the examples could even be squicked by incest, or indifferent about it, as long as it's there, it's an example of the trope.

edited 24th Oct '10 1:50:58 AM by EternalSeptember

bump.

Incest Yay should be treated the same as the other Yay tropes. Move it back to the main namespace with a subjective header. Or, if you guys really insist it belongs under the Fetish Fuel banner, move the other Yays under it too.

Seems wrong to put Incest Yay as a second class trope.

All the Yay's are YMMV subjective thingies. I agree they should all be someplace where we can quarantine them from the storytelling tropes.

They are YMMV subjective thingies in the same sense as Narm or The Wesley or Moral Event Horizon, and the YMMV banner already quarantines them like these others.

But they are also not Troper Tales, so putting them in Fetish Fuel is just plain incorrect.

edited 27th Oct '10 9:19:01 AM by EternalSeptember

So can someone move it back? I'd do it myself but the main page is locked for some unfathomable reason.

On a second thought, I think actually this could be objective, originally it was written because people kept misattributing in-story incestous teasings as Brother–Sister Incest, even though no actual incest happened.

What about splitting it as one page for shipping/fan theory, and another one for authors intentionally using it as in Turn On Tropes? The former could even stay in Troper Tales for all I care.

This could appply to all the other yay tropes as well. The problem is, that they were used for these two different concepts back before subjectives were banned from the main namespaces, and now their objective usage is banned as well.

It's ridiculous that a Big Bad hugging the protagonist and whispering "I love you" while dying, isn't allowed to be listed as an example of Foe Yay, or a brother accidentally falling on top of her sister and grabbing her breasts can't be noted on the work page as an example of Incest Yay, because the tropes are somewhere else, also used in a more subjective sense.

(of course this excludes Fan Yay, that is entirely an audience reaction)

edited 1st Nov '10 6:31:37 AM by EternalSeptember

I think a fair number of people in this thread aren't getting the point.

The point isn't whether or not Incest Yay is a YMMV or an Audience Reaction Trope or whatever.

The point is that the Fetish Fuel namespace is for listing examples of Fetish Fuel in a given work (or medium, for those works that don't yet have their own page) on the page FetishFuel.The Name Of The Work Or Medium.

Incest Yay is not a work or a medium. It goes in a different namespace.

edited 30th Nov '10 7:41:40 PM by billybobfred

I think there are only two people in this thread not getting a point. Unfortunately, these two happen to be the ones who could unlock the main namespace.

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