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Renagade Boo from planet Earth
Boo
May 27th 2010 at 12:52:07 PM

About a week ago I started working on making a tabletop game based off of Final Fantasy 12/Tactics A2, for all of the Final Fantasy fans out there who love Ivalice. So far, the conversion to tabletop format has been simple, and the Races easy enough to make stats for, but this ain't something I can just do on my own. Playtesting will happen eventually, but I'd like some supportive criticism on my work thus far.

You can find the project and essentially anything else you need to know in the following link, don't worry, this particular Forum's safe for work, I'll keep this thread updated on my progress.

http://www.mgcomics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32555

Anything you guys can do to help support me with this project is GREATLY appreciated.

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clockworkspider Needs moar friendship. Relationship Status: Sinking with my ship
Needs moar friendship.
Jun 1st 2010 at 1:43:05 AM

I read over it, and I like the looks of it.

Were you thinking of including TA 2's Seer class as a prestige class? Because I was toying with a couple ideas about how Magick Frenzy would work, either letting the mage cast a spell (max cast time 1 standard action) as the first attack in a full attack action, or playing it like in the game and having them teleport over and use a melee attack against all targets in the spell's range.

Renagade Boo from planet Earth
Boo
Jun 1st 2010 at 1:32:10 PM

Oh, hey, a reply, thanks! At the moment, I hadn't considered Seer as a prestige class/Advanced Job, in fact, I hadn't considered many Advanced Jobs yet because I want to finish the actual jobs before moving on to advanced ones. However, both methods of what you suggested sound solid enough and I'll consider it for when I get to that point.

That said, I have updated this thing, Races are essentially done, with only some minor tweaking possibly happening in the future as I start developing other elements.

Jobs are currently underway, I'm juggling flavor text, job skills, and how HP is going to work at the moment (I was never a big fan of rolling for HP, so I burrowed 4es HP gain method and tweaked it so that your CON still matters).

I changed Intelligence to Aptitude. This is because some races just aren't that good at casting magic, not because they're stupid, leave that to the Seeq. But it's because they either don't trust magic, or have natural impedements to their ability to cast magic, where some other races not only can cast magic, but pursue a wealth of skills. Bangaa and Gria are as smart as the average Hume, yet they recieve penalties to what is supposed to be INT because they can't use magic very well, and INT is what is tied to using Magic. Aptitude is better in this case, because it doesn't nessecarily say how smart you are, but how skilled and readily able to approach magic you are.

I also added a Glossary, to keep track of terms and conditions as they pop up.

edited 1st Jun '10 1:33:11 PM by Renagade

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Renagade Boo from planet Earth
Boo
Jun 5th 2010 at 10:07:20 AM

Notable Update: Black Mage class, save for weapon/armor proficiency and the spell list, is essentially done.

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Ezekiel Smooth as a Skunk from The Other Side
Smooth as a Skunk
Jun 7th 2010 at 10:10:01 AM

I always figured Magick Frenzy was more like a Flash Step.

The comics equivalent of PTSD.
Renagade Boo from planet Earth
Boo
Jun 7th 2010 at 3:27:58 PM

Magick Frenzy will probably wind up as a combination of clockworkspider's idea. It'll be a Full-round action, for certain, in which you cast a spell that must be a Standard action in length and then teleport to the enemy's location to give him a good thrashing, then going back to yer square. But we're getting ahead of ourselves.

I've another notable update. I've listed many of the spells that appear in TA 2 down in the Magicks tab and divvied them up into 4 schools. Yes, there will be more, including Time and Summoning, but for the 9 basic classes, this is what we're worried about at the moment.

I'm open to suggestions as to which spells should be added or removed or to which spells should move up or down a tier. Go ahead, I don't bite.

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clockworkspider Needs moar friendship. Relationship Status: Sinking with my ship
Needs moar friendship.
Jun 7th 2010 at 3:51:12 PM

Hmm. I'd move Meteor/Comet over to Time like in FFT. And maybe add the Sage's Gigaflare spell to the black magic list. Other then that, it looks fine.

Renagade Boo from planet Earth
Boo
Jun 9th 2010 at 2:49:48 PM

Update, Techniques are being developed for the Black Mage, I need a few more, though, any ideas?

Also, I'm keeping Meteor right where it is. While it may be a Time Magick Spell in FFT, in almost every other incarnation of the series, it's technically a Black Magic Spell.

And Gigaflare will probably be a spell for an Advanced job, most likely the Sage, or maybe Seer.

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Jun 10th 2010 at 7:59:41 PM

OK, we can use this, this, this, and this for reference.

How about Turbo MP, Achilles (weaker version of Geomancy), Shades of Black, Shear, Absorb MP?

edited 10th Jun '10 8:47:39 PM by thatother1dude

Renagade Boo from planet Earth
Boo
Jun 11th 2010 at 7:21:13 AM

Thanks TO 1 D, I went ahead and added all of those (in one way or another) except for Shear. Why no Shear? Because it's essentially Magick Break, which I'm reserving for Soldiers.

That being said, unless anyone has any objections, if you wanna start up a Black Mage sample character, you have the rules there, go right ahead.

Next update: Gunner, maybe with Equipment thrown in so I can start listing weapon and armor proficiencies.

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Ezekiel Smooth as a Skunk from The Other Side
Smooth as a Skunk
Jun 11th 2010 at 4:09:09 PM

Of course Meteor is never a Time Magic spell - how many Final Fantasy games have a distinct category for Time Magic and a Meteor spell? I think FFXII has the former but not the latter; most earlier games have the latter but not the former... if the logic is that it's an attack spell and therefore belongs in Black Magic, consider Holy.

edited 11th Jun '10 4:09:54 PM by Ezekiel

The comics equivalent of PTSD.
Jun 11th 2010 at 6:30:24 PM

Meteor was a Time Magic(k) spell in Final Fantasy V and Final Fantasy Tactics (which is set in Ivalice).

As for the other Ivalice Alliance games, in XII, Revenant Wings, and Tactics A2 it's only used by the summon Exodus/Exdeath while in Tactics Advance it's an Alchemical skill (which was replaced by Protometeor in A2).

clockworkspider Needs moar friendship. Relationship Status: Sinking with my ship
Needs moar friendship.
Jun 12th 2010 at 10:03:24 PM

Not that there's really a difference if you think about it. Large rock falling from space = large rock falling from space, whatever you call it.

Sorry. Misused trope.

edited 12th Jun '10 10:04:16 PM by clockworkspider

Renagade Boo from planet Earth
Boo
Jun 13th 2010 at 3:14:43 PM

Update, Got to work on Gunners. No Table for now. My dad took my Laptop with him on a Business trip and I'm stuck using my brand new Mac Book, which doesn't have Word on it, which is what I used to make the Table for Black Mages.

That said, I need ideas for their "Ace" ability, and I'm also taking ideas for Techniques.

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feotakahari Fuzzy Orange Doomsayer from Looking out at the city
Fuzzy Orange Doomsayer
Jun 13th 2010 at 3:59:57 PM

Hmm . . . their elemental abilities like Fireshot weren't particularly necessary in the game, and can probably be left out unless you're going the Elemental Rock–Paper–Scissors route. Silenshot and maybe Blindshot should stay, though, and I can see Charmshot and Stopshot as upper-tier abilities.

That's Feo . . . He's a disgusting, mysoginistic, paedophilic asshat who moonlights as a shitty writer—Something Awful
Jun 13th 2010 at 11:02:36 PM

After browsing through some of the skills sets of various gun-users throughout various Final Fantasy games I've picked out ones that might work as Gunner Techniques or Ace abilities:

  • Mindblow: Damage to MP.
  • Armorshot: Ignore defense (though I'm not sure how well that would adapt to a system like this).
  • Scattershot: Attacks multiple targets when they're close enough together.
  • The Gunner/Fusilier's various debuffing attacks. I likewise agree Charmshot and Stopshot should be higher up (those made every other Fusilier skill completely pointless when you could do them just as much).
  • Concentration: It wouldn't really be the same as the "Aim" technique already on there because this would accuracy instead of damage.
  • If the Flintlock doesn't become a prestige class, Ether Cannon might worth giving the Gunner (except instead of using an up an ether you transfer your MP to the target). Even if it does, I think Blur, Charged Attacks, and maybe Blowback might be worth considering giving to both classes.
  • Some of Al-Cid's Agent abilities from A2 might make good Ace abilities.
  • For that matter, so might some of the various "gambler" abilities used by characters like Setzer or Cait Sith, though definitely toned down.
  • Augment Maintenance: Extend the length of offensive buffs.

I can't tell, is this supposed to be a fusion of the Fusilier/Gunner and Cannoneer classes (which can use hand guns or hand cannons) or is the Cannoneer supposed to be a possible prestige class (in which case this class just uses hand guns)?

While I'm thinking about it, which class should get Damage > MP/MP Shield? Between Tactics Advance and Tactics A2 the classes that could learn it were the Morpher, Tinker, Blue Mage, and Arcanist but it's pretty useless when used by an actual magic class, especially in a game where MP does not regenerate during the battle.

clockworkspider Needs moar friendship. Relationship Status: Sinking with my ship
Needs moar friendship.
Jun 13th 2010 at 11:07:16 PM

I PM'd him a prototype Blue Mage setup with MP Shield as a job feature. You'd have to ask him to post it, though, because the computer I'd saved it on is more-or-less kaput. -insert Monty Python dead parrot sketch parody here-

For Armorshot, it would be a ranged touch attack (bypasses equipped and natural armor bonuses, still effected by dodge, dex, and deflection bonuses).

I like the other suggestions, personally. Especially the scattershot effect.

By the way, how are guns working? Will they be like heavy crossbows (shoot once, standard action to reload, etc?).

Which brings to mind another question - I might have missed something, but are we running MP as it is in FFTA or FFTA 2?

edited 13th Jun '10 11:09:34 PM by clockworkspider

Renagade Boo from planet Earth
Boo
Jun 14th 2010 at 2:41:31 AM

Oh, yeah, I suppose there's no harm in posting up the Blue, but before I get to that.

What I'm thinking is that for Weapon Proficiencies, there's going to be some categories for each weapon, like in FFTA/2, but a bit more all inclusive and flexible. Like Fists, Light Swords, Heavy Swords, Axes, Bows, Etc. And then Firearms, which'll include the regular pistols, and hand cannons, so to answer TO 1 D's question, yes, for all intents and purposes, Gunners will be a fusion of the Fusilier and Cannoneer, and Flintlock as well, if you wanna get into that.

For a regular person, reloading a Gun or Hand Cannon would indeed be a standard action, but once Gunners get Rapid Reload at 2nd level, it'll be moved down to just a Move action.

And MP works, for all intents and purposes, as it does in TA. You start the day with full MP, but you lose it once you start using Magick, it doesn't regenerate, on most occasions, but once you start hitting higher tiers, this becomes less of a problem. Also, there's still always Ethers.

So Yeah, here's what I got for the Blue Mage, if ya'lls interested.

(By the way Clockwork, for Advanced Job (AKA Prestige Classes) Giving them a starting HP/MP amount is unnecessary, as you won't be starting as one at first level, also, I fixed the Requirement Ranks, seeing as the Skill system doesn't work as it does in 3.5, you'd only need 5 ranks (but you'd still get a +8 in the skill for having those 5 ranks... If it's a Job Skill)

Requirements: Nature 5 ranks, Magicks 5 ranks.

HP Gain/Level: 4 + CON modifier

MP Gain/Level: 4 + WIS modifer

Job Skills: Crafting, Dungeoneering, History, Insight, Magicks, Nature, Profession, Streetwise. 2 + APT modifier skill points/level.

Attack/Save Progression: Average attack bonus and reflex saves, good fortitude and will saves.

Weapon Proficiency: Simple weapons, light blades, robes and light armor. No shields.

Job Features: 1st level: Learning: When a monster uses a supernatural or spell-like ability (that costs the monster MP to use) within the blue mage's line-of-sight, the blue mage may once, as a free action, make a DC 30 Magick check (APT + Magick skill + blue mage level) to learn the skill immediately. Alternatively, or if the check fails, the blue mage may apend one hour meditating out of battle to reduce the DC by 10. This must be done within 12 hours of the encounter. If the ability successfully targets the blue mage, reduce the DC by 5. For each time the ability is observed by the blue mage, the DC is reduced by 2, and another immediate check may be made. If the ability cannot be seen by the blue mage due to blindness, unconsciousness, sleep, etc., it cannot be learned from that observation. A blue mage may learn up to their blue mage level + 1/2 APT modifier of abilities. Caster level for abilities is the character's total caster level. All effects for these abilities run off of the blue mage's stats. Monster Lore: A blue mage is experienced in the ways of monsters. They receive +4 to Nature checks relating to monster knowledge and their blue mage level as a damage bonus to attack rolls made against monsters.

4th level: MP Shield: A blue mage may channel absorbed mist into a protective shell. The blue mage may, as a move action, perform one of the following actions: I) Convert 4 points of MP into a +1 deflection bonus to AC (max of +5) until the mage's next round. Mp spent is not recovered. II) Until the mage's next turn, damage inflicted is taken from MP first. When MP runs out, further damage hits HP.

5th level: Monster Soul: As a blue mage absorbs monster abilities, they begin to alter the blue mage's very self. At 5th level, the blue mage chooses one monster family from which they have absorbed at least one ability. They receive +2 to all nondamage rolls involving creatures from this family, including learning blue magick. Also, skills learned from this monster family no longer count towards the skill limit. At seventh level, the influence of blue magic on the mage's soul increases. The blue mage receives a permanent stat change (+2/-2) based on the monster family chosen at first level (see list below). At tenth level, the blue mage has permanently taken on certain characteristics of the monster family. The stat change doubles (becoming +4/-4) and the blue mage receives an additional bonus ability based on the monster family chosen. However, the monster traits damage the blue mage's ability to relate to non-monsters, causing a -4 penalty to Wordplay and Barter skills with non-monsters. The format is as follows:

Monster Family Stat Change 10th level ability

Baknamy + STR/- WIS Improved Critical (weapon of BM's choice) feat

Coeurl/Wolf + DEX/- CON Combat Reflexes feat

Sprite + WIS/- CON Spell Resistance 10

Malboro + CON/- CHA +4 on saving throw vs. Bad Breath's ailments

Shellbeast + CON/- WIS Natural Armor +4

Flan + CON/- DEX Damage Reduction 5/-

Headless + STR/- APT Blind-Fight feat

Antlion + STR/- WIS Tremorsense

Dragon + STR/- DEX Breath Weapon, half strength of dragon's

edited 14th Jun '10 9:36:39 AM by Renagade

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Renagade Boo from planet Earth
Boo
Jun 14th 2010 at 9:58:43 AM

Update, Gunner Class Features are done, now I just need to get to Techniques and I can move on to Hunters.

If you think an Ace needs tweaking, let me know.

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Jun 14th 2010 at 11:30:38 AM

Fusiliers and Cannoneers being one class is fine, though I might suggest some of the class techniques only be usable with handguns or hand cannons. Some of the techniques I suggested earlier like Armorshot or Mindblow might be good for handgun-only techniques while Scattershot, Blowback (which can also be considered a fusion of the Cannoneer's "Prime"), and some abilities I'll add here would be good for hand cannon techniques.

  • Item Shell: Launch items in your cannon to give their effect on distance foes or allies (basically a way to combine Ether Shell, Potion Shell, and the "Combine" Cannoneer ability from Final Fantasy V Advance).
  • Mortar: Get an accuracy and power bonus by planting the gun in the ground, but miss next chance to move.
  • Foresight: The next time you fire your cannon is launches two projectiles instead of one.
  • Target: Delay attack until next turn, but does extra damage if the target is still in range.

The Flintlock's Healing Shiv abilities are so different that it might merit being a Prestige Class (basically a buffer which can only effect one person at a time but can take target allies from very far away), though that's something we'd worry about way down the line.

Renagade Boo from planet Earth
Boo
Jun 15th 2010 at 8:07:40 AM

Update, Started working on Techniques for Gunners, and did a few other minor things. Still need Techniques for Gunners though, especially Basic Tier ones. I'm open to Ideas.

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Jun 16th 2010 at 7:16:56 PM

Well, we've run out of stuff from previous Final Fantasy games, so I'll just look through the Guns and Gunplay Tropes page looking for ideas, although some of these (like Grappling-Hook Pistol) seem more like ideas for special items:

  • A-Team Firing: If you miss, you can make your opponent (more likely to) miss their next attack.
  • Accidental Aiming Skills: Maybe an ability to let a shot that misses one opponent get a chance of hitting another one nearby?
  • Bizarre and Improbable Ballistics: I guess there could be an ability to ricochet a bullet to hit around cover, but it seems like it would be to complicated to implement in a tabletop RPG.
  • Blown Across the Room: A successful attack has a chance of knocking the opponent over.
  • Leap and Fire: Take your next attack immediately after sucessfully dodging an attack.
  • Pistol-Whipping: Perhaps as a counter to an opportunity attack?

edited 16th Jun '10 7:17:11 PM by thatother1dude

Renagade Boo from planet Earth
Boo
Jun 17th 2010 at 3:30:20 AM

Update, unless there's a technique I missed that you think I should add, consider Gunners complete.

Also, I have a flight to catch tomorrow morning and shall be headed to California for vacation. So I won't be updating at the least for a couple of days. Until then, my next planned update will be starting on Weapons and Armor so I can legitimately complete the classes by adding thier Proficiencies and Starting Gil. So, until I get the chance to get online, feel free to discuss Weapons and Armor and how it should work!

Bon Voyage! Auf Wiedersehen! I'll see you on the other side!

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clockworkspider Needs moar friendship. Relationship Status: Sinking with my ship
Needs moar friendship.
Jun 17th 2010 at 11:53:22 AM

Watch out for the "Friends."

edited 17th Jun '10 11:53:41 AM by clockworkspider

Renagade Boo from planet Earth
Boo
Jun 18th 2010 at 1:06:48 AM

Posting from the Airport in London with free Wifi, about to fly out in an hour.

Didn't sleep at all last night and I'm running on a bottle of water and a cheese sandwich. =D

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