During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Cut Udai.
By the way, what is it with Reginald Birch? Are we discussing him or not?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I think Lighty said he does qualify, if barely. I'm curious what the issue was though.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The Moron
Edit: Answered a question that, as it turns out, wasn't asked, so ignore this
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Feb 13th 2021 at 3:58:27 PM
The wifi here sucks
If Hegel has an issue on Birch, I'll hear it.
Addressed below. EP went to wrong thread.
I have now since moved it.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Feb 13th 2021 at 1:04:58 AM
“ Bastard? Too much?” classic thread mix up homie!
Goku Black
Was about to ask why this non heinous dude was being proposed till I read the sections.
Wrong thread.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
The Moron
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Sorry bud, been a bit of a switcheroo there
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Whoops, my bad. Looks like I'm the one who suffered a switcheroo after all.
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Feb 13th 2021 at 3:58:05 PM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Starcrusher, that wasn't it. I remember before that Lighty said he wanted to revisit Birch.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Shin Megami Tensei IV
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Dr. Declan Gage
Goku Black
Are you upvoting Gage in cm?
He's not at all heinous enough compared to a ton of other guys in law and order even in his own show.
Edited by miraculous on Feb 13th 2021 at 1:00:44 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Whoops. My bad.
That was NOT meant for here...
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Feb 13th 2021 at 1:04:07 AM
Goku Black
Just Post it over their. No big foul.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
“ His plan is to genuinely give Goren the chance to move on from the things in his past that weighed down and troubled him for the longest time”
Please take the time to read what you’re voting on.
All good future, it happens when you frequent both.
Edited by 43110 on Feb 13th 2021 at 4:04:55 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
BTW, speaking of Birch, I reformatted the Sandbox:
- Multimedia (Torquemada & Braddock)
- Video Games (everyone else)
- Other Media (Birch & Stoughton)
to the Interrogator rewrite.
Cut Udai Taxim.
Looks good.
Edited by DrUnknown on Feb 13th 2021 at 1:06:17 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Mir's not wrong about the heinous standard. "Criminal Minds Syndrome" could just as easily be called "Law and Order Syndrome" (or at least "SVU Syndrome") ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Hell, for a crime show I'm not even sure that passes the BASELINE.
Edited by ACW on Feb 13th 2021 at 4:09:58 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
I Mean Gage kills what three people. I don't Think that would be enough even in csi
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
He killed two. That’s not enough.
His daughter killed three. Even that’s DEFINITELY not enough.
Also again, he’s a crazy WIE.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Feb 13th 2021 at 1:13:52 AM
I think that the issue with Birch was that there was some false information that Birch wanted to use the Pieces of Eden to rule the World. Hegel actually pointed it out and cut that part out of Birch's write-up afterwords we all agreed that Birch did just enough to still stand out within the Assassin's Creed universe to still count as a CM and we left it as it is. So then are we still going to use the shorten versions of Birch and Braddock's write-ups?
to Hollow POH
Edited by G-Editor on Feb 13th 2021 at 1:22:43 AM
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Setting?
Sword Art Online Hollow Fragment is one of the videogames of SAO on its own continuityn separate from the light novels/ anime. We already have a keeper from Infinity Moment in the form of Sugou, who keeps because his attempted murder of the Assault Team and tons of personal villainy.
Now, in Hollow Fragment. The plot involves a new place known as the Hollow Area, a place gathering copies of the players of SAO that can effectively become their own people named Hollows.
Hollows range from being blunt copies of Players to being slighty more aware, but all of them basically live to kill each other to test the power of their source material in Aincrad, and one Hollow in particular proves to develop a lot more that the usual...
Who is Hollow POH?
The Hollow of the legendary infamous murderer, Hollow POH is unique in that after killing a lot of Hollows, his data more of less organized itself into a coherent self-aware entity that shared POH's murderous impulses and memories. He became a fully sapient POH Clone.
Initially, POH spies Kirito and Phylia, a girl that became trapped into the Hollow Area even before. Realizing that the Cardinal System considers him a potential administrator just like Kirito, POH enters the Administration Area and manipulates Phylia by guilt tripping her for being Orange Players
See. Phylia's first memory in the Hollow Area was a fight with the hollow version of herself, which she killed. This caused Phylia to be considered a Player Killer and caused her to doubt if she really was the human and not the Hollow that killed her source material. POH is aware of this and makes Phylia believe she is a Hollow and that, if Kirito returns and finish SAO, they both would be erased.
Phylia follows POH's orders and lead Kirito to a trap that was supossed to merely incapacitate him and left him trapped in the Hollow Area, but whom POH actually used to attempt to kill him.
When Phylia returns, POH mocks her and laughts at Kirito's supossed death before beating Phylia and telling that he expected her to "act like a girl and cry" before revealing his real plan.
Using his admin priviledges to fuse the Hollow Area and Aincrad and unleash the Hollow A.I.s into Aincrad, intending to cause a massacre that would kill every surviving Aincrad player and create a self-feeding loop of Hollows that POH could enjoy killing for all eternity in his "paradise".
POH puts the actualization in process before Kirito arrives, they fight and POH dies peacefully, believing that even if he dies, his Real Self would enjoy the future carnage that would be unleashed in Aincrad.
Kirito stops the process right before it can happen, forgives Phylia and eventually finishes SAO.
Heinous standard?
Trying to kill every single surviving Aincrad player. Every single one. Even if we consider innocent of the crimes of the Actual POH, this is more that enough to count. All to create a paradise where he would be slaughtering AI datas to no end.
Mitigating traits?
POH...is a Hollow. He is a Copy of POH. But the thing here is that, well...that really doesn't impair his moral agency. He is completely self aware of himself and the Cardinal System effectively considers him to be a Human. In terms of SAO's many Top-Down A.I.s, POH is definitely one of the most self-aware of all, only really comparable to beings like Yui or Strea, who are considered to be actual living people for the narrative.
Verdict?
The real issue is that if you consider "Being a clone of a Serial Killer that shares his memories" to be agency imparing or not. Because Hollow POH shows to be pretty much very sapient, being able to manipulate people and lie.
Edited by KazuyaProta on Feb 13th 2021 at 7:57:43 AM
Watch me destroying my country
The wifi here sucks
Yes to Hollow POH. Kind of reminds me of Dr. Isaacs from the RE films where both the real character and his clone both count.
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Current mood: sick of your shit
Heres hoping they give us a really memorable vile Badguy for the revival.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."