During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
He sure doesn't care about them like that, and...I'm not sure how you can say he doesn't realize it. He talks at the end about destroying reality to build a better one.
@ACW: Tim Curry has serious health issues, don't expect to hear him much now.
His benevolence to the Fearsome Four is just him being Faux Affably Evil and, while he's not doing so hot mentally by the end, he's definitely aware of what the Ramrod is going to do and is just fine with it.
Professor Gigachad
He treats the Fearsome Four with respect and promotes Liquidator after he gives him the idea to kill Darkwing Duck, He does talk about building a better world but he doesn't seem to realize that the RamRod will destroy everything so there is nothing left to build.
This is just not doing it for me.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
>doesn't seem to realize the Ramrod will destroy the world
Does literally saying "who cares about this reality!?" after Gosalyn says "this will destroy everything" strike you of ignorant of the consequences?
Bulba doesn't "lose his mind." He puts up a facade that stops halfway through the episode. Furthermore te Benevolent Boss stuff isn't rounded beyond a joke or two; when his goons get sucked up into presumable oblivion by the rift, he doesn't acknowledge them.
He...flat out says he doesn't care about damage done to reality and superficial niceness to minions is just that.
Your vote's your vote but I'm not seeing the counterargument.
Yeah the counterargument isn't doing it for me either. Yes to both the rebooted and fanfiction Taurus Bolba.
The Emperor of Evil!
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to 2017!Taurus Bulba
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
to fanfic Bulba as well.
Darkwing Duck fanfic The Return of the Bull: Taurus Bulba is St.Canard's biggest criminal kingpin, who murdered Professor Waddlemeyer. When his minions successfully steal Waddlemeyer's invention Ramrod, he escapes from prison and kidnap Gosalyn, threatening to kill her if he won't get code. Returning sixteen years later as a psychotic cyborg, after being invited on the anniversary of Canard Tower tradegy, Taurus start killing those present, including his former henchmen. When Darkwing Duck, Gosalyn and Mayor tries to escape, Bulba reveal that he placed very powerful bomb in basement in order to destroy the Tower. When Mayor distracts Bulba to let Darkwing Duck and Gosalyn go to the bomb, he tells that he want to kill both of them, because he doesn't want Gosalyn to be "another thorn in his side". When duo goes after Mayor, he activates self-destruction device implanted in his suit, killing himself with maniacal laugh.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Drafts please. Also, please have the title link to the story.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I don't know can I do this (links).
Professor Gigachad
That's fine it is just my opinion but I'm not really feeling it it seemed more like that once he got hit in the head with the Ramrod he underwent a Sanity Slippage and couldn't fully comprehend how much damage the Ramrod will do. He seems to be in denial throughout most of the episode and believes he will build a better world despite being told there will be nothing to build as everything will be destroyed.
His Benevolent Boss status with the Fearsome Five seems genuine at least to me, and it makes sense why it would be. He is a massive fan of the Darkwing Duck show so it would make sense that he respects the Fearsome Five.
I'm not convinced for him in this trope but if the majority are fine with it that's fine.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Nov 3rd 2020 at 9:53:17 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
You add links by putting two square brackets on both ends of a word and adding the link before it. It looks like [[www.example.com story title]].
Edited by DrUnknown on Nov 3rd 2020 at 9:44:16 AM
The wifi here sucks
Yes to Fanfic Bulba
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Thank you.
Yes to Bulba
Already added him.
Self-Declared King of Everything
Yes to both Bulbas. That’s three now, right?
Check out my current fanfiction project.
Yeah, the closest Bulba was to being "benevolent" was telling Liquidator he's promoted to vice president for his suggestion of killing Darkwing. And when he says "forget this reality, we can make a better one" it shows that he's fully aware that his actions will cause universal destruction.
By my count, yes.
Alright, another removal proposal (if I keep up like that, I might become infamous in this forum for making removal proposals ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
)! This time it`s about Lieutenant Rumm from the Starcraft universe. I admit that I haven`t read the book and the comic he appears in but from the info I gathered from the Starcraft wiki, I think he should be cut.
What is the work?
Starcraft is a series of popular video games developed by Blizzard Entertainment which tells the story of three races that fight each other for dominance in the Koprulu sector. There are also books and comic books as well.
Who is he? What has he done?
Lieutenant Rumm is an abusive Confederate military official who is responsible for training new Ghosts (the elite soldiers of the Terrans). Here is his entry:
Heinous standard
The reason why I think he should be removed is because in my opinion his actions are not heinous enough for the standards of the Starcraft universe even if we take into account his limited resources. Let`s have a look at his list of his actions:
1) He kills a kitten by injecting it with a tumor. - This is a case of animal cruelty and I think that hurting human or sentient beings should be considered more heinous than hurting animals.
2) He threatens Sarah Kerrigan that he would kill her father if she doesn`t comply with his demands. - I checked the Starcraft wiki and it seems that Rumm only threatened to kill Kerrigan`s father but he didn`t actually do it even after Kerrigan defied him. This action is still not sufficiantly heinous.
3) He uses neural resocialisation on Sarah Kerrigan which means that he brainwashed her and implanted false memories in her. - This is a horrible thing especially if we take into account that Kerrigan is still a child. However, it has been established that the Confederacy uses this neural resocialization very often and after their fall the Terran Dominion also uses it on its Ghosts. So, Rumm is far from being the only person who does this.
4) It is mentioned that he has abused Kerrigan mentally for over a year. - Again, this is a horrible thing to do to a child but I still don`t see how it pushes him over the Starcraft heinous standard.
To summarize, Rumm didn`t kill anyone (if we exclude the kitten), threaten to kill someone, used neural resocialization on a child which is pretty common in the Starcraft universe and abused the child in question. While he sounds like a Hate Sink, that`s not the same as a Complete Monster.
Let`s compare him to the other keepers:
Amon attempted the extinguish all life in the entire universe, commited genocide on his own race, created the Zerg and unleashed them upon the galaxy which cause billions of deaths, brainwashed millions of Protoss with a painful Mind Rape and forced them to fight their brethren.
Arcturus Mengsk had two planets massacred by the Zerg, one of which had a population numbering in the billions, betrayed his most trusted soldier and her entire army and left them to be killed by the Zerg, killed a group of teenagers, established an oppressive government which imprisoned and executed alll of his political enemies and made people`s lives even more miserable than before, allowed horrible experiments on sentient beings, attempted to kill his own son etc...
Narud attempted to ressucect Amon because he desired to extinguish all life in the universe, conducted horrible experiments on many sentient beings and allowed the UED to be overwhelmed by the Zerg.
Ezekiel Daun is a bounty hunter who tortures his victims for fun by flaying them alive, cutting off their fingers, etc...
Stanley Burgess is a sadistic scientist who conducts horrible experiments on both Protoss And Humans by removing the organs of the Protoss and dissecting them and then implanting them in the bodies of living Humans.
The Prisoner is a sadistic serial killer of both Protoss and Terran who murdered the entire salvage team that rescued her, killed many people in torturous ways and had the inhabitants of an entire colony massacred. She also plans to continue her killing spree throughout the galaxy.
Final Verdict
I will leave it up to you!
Edited by WatTambor on Nov 3rd 2020 at 11:04:59 AM
I'll read that through there in a bit Wat but lemme say that's a crown I wear as well, so you're in good company dude!
Current mood: sick of your shit
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Nov 3rd 2020 at 8:40:27 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes