During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Lizzid people!
Even the director apologized in this case.
Imp...
i kind of think this is what we're talking about on you opposing almost every single cut. Kind of think you need to choose the right battles here.
Edited by Lightysnake on Oct 3rd 2020 at 11:27:14 AM
I'm gonna avoid saying what I wanna say and leave it at I'll probably be off the thread for the next few hours.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I'm not opposing him, just voicing a concern. Cut Paul.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
For Music, I think next week, starting with Macabre on Monday and a handful each on Tuesday-Friday, we can evaluate them and make the final decisions for the swappings the following Tuesday.
Edited by ACW on Oct 3rd 2020 at 2:32:11 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
You do not need to voice the concerns there.
Goku Black
Imperial some stuff is best left unsaid...
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
The fact of the matter is almost every time you pause the discussion and go back on "But I never technically voted keep" when someone points out it's unneeded. It's getting to be quite a tired dance.
Yeah, this "well, this precedent of stuff for tasteleness..."
Stop, ok? It's a ratty movie that glamorizes a real life serial killer. Take context into account and please realize you don't always play devil's advocate. We don't need to fucking trope it and unless there's a real argument to keep it, please just let some things go.
Edited by Lightysnake on Oct 3rd 2020 at 11:34:06 AM
Cut Paul.
『 』
Axe Paul.
Every single time you bring up these petty concerns that either amount to playing Devil's Advocate or "I personally disagree with this."
We judge based on criteria, Imp, not gut feelings, and we have genuine precedent for cutting exploitation. I get you've already brought this up but your repeated comments are coming to the point that it is becoming a very noticeable and very pointless issue. If your comment doesn't add anything to the arguments being presented, please keep it to yourself.
And yes; chop Paul.
Edited by Scraggle on Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:45:29 PM
Cut Paul. Speaking of cuts, there's a MLP fanfic candidate that I'm really iffy on.
- I have no wings and I must fly (I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream & My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic): AP is this story's version of AM and is just as monstrous. When it was given sapience by its creators, AP believed itself to be superior to its pony masters and thus wiped out all life in Equestria, except for the Mane Six. To entertain itself, AP puts the Mane Six through various simulations to physically and mentally torment them over the course of 100 years. When Rainbow Dash kills her friends to free them from AP's control, it puts her through even more extensive torture over several more hundred years, while also turning her into a formless blob.
Considering how every single action done by AP is the same thing done by the canon version of AM, this really makes it come off as the MLP story simply being "Here's the story of I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream but with MLP". Unless someone wants to verify there being enough differences to justify it, I'm not comfortable with AP's inclusion. It would be like including candidates from fanfics that do nothing but recount what occurs in canon.
Edited by Awesomekid42 on Oct 3rd 2020 at 4:19:27 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'll chop Paul tomorrow (I made a note to do so).
I'd be fine with cutting AM, if it is indeed too similar to the canon version.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I could check to see if he's too similar. Unless somebody else wants to.
Edited by ImperialMajestyXO on Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:28:16 PM
Goku Black
Any more votes
Yes to the Nix. Cut Paul.
As for AP, I'll wait for Unknown to chime in; they did state in the original EP that there are some differences from the original story.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
With that, I'll vote to cut AP.
Edited by falcontalons on Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:42:24 PM
As the person who originally posted it, I'm now inclined to ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
it. There are a couple of deviations from the main story, but no real differences from AM's crimes. At the time, I thought it was fine because the other differences in the story deviated from the original story, but since I now know that versions of candidates that are deemed too similar can be cut, I agree that this logic can be applied here and thus he should be cut.
Edited by DrUnknown on Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:43:55 PM
Well, that saves me some trouble. Cut AM/AP
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Also, let's not ignore Mir's candidate.
Speaking of song cuts, I also propose cutting Slayer's Jeffrey Dahmer and Dr. Shiro Ishii. In short, they're two more historical figures that recount their crimes and nothing else. Since they fall under the same category that 43110 downvoted, I'll count his vote as well (if 43110 wants to change this, let me know).
Also, for clarification, the number of votes needed to cut somebody is a net 5 's, right?
and Noted.
Edited by DrUnknown on Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:57:13 PM
Naw, you're right Unknown.
Goku Black
Okay put me down as cutting anything that doesn't have any changes to the historical basis or is sung from the pov of the character (for historical examples obviously).
Edited by miraculous on Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:55:15 PM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
I think I said no to him when he first came up, so cut him
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?