During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
We've approved examples of the same ilk I didn't agree with, so I'm going to restate my confusion about the double standard but yes, I agree this doesn't have enough of a plot for a keeper, so I'm a no to Nyarlothotep here.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Am I good to suggest the cut or should I wait a bit longer? I've never suggested a cut before. So I don't know how long I should wait.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
My opinion? If something is under 2000 words in a prose story, there needs to be something very special to it. I'm not sure what the limit is, but this doesn't hit the mark for me
Goku Black
It's just a bunch of random diary entries. Like really....their Isn't even a central plot.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
We have a teddy from some 1900 word story (Bright Eyes) who strings a kid along and butchers him at the end... people said yes to that but no here... why are we letting any of these up?
Matter of fact, even going beyond that we barred The Human Centipede and The Unfunnies as I've pointed out a few times now for being meritless shock works. By the logic of some of the keepers we have allowed, we open the door for them to be reinstated by allowing for mental gymnastics to say them not devoting every single second to Body Horror and edgy shock somehow makes them not "grimdark".
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
I literally gave an example, how is that a "hypothetical"?
Edited by 43110 on May 31st 2020 at 3:35:41 PM
Lizzid people!
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Nyarlathotep.
@Bullman: You can make the cut yourself. There is already a consensus to do so anyway.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I mean, reading the story, it is just a series of diary entries instead of a legitimate story amounting to "bad guy does this."
That's kind of bordering on hypotheticals there.
Edited by AustinDR on May 31st 2020 at 12:32:31 PM
I see. I'll keep note of the story's length the next time I propose a candidate. I apologize for this mistake on my end.
Goku Black
Here bright eyes.
Did we really approve a teddy bear monster ?
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
I couldn't care less about keeping that one, TBH. It's exactly the terrible horror story that we don't need to analyze.
Lizzid people!
Sure, I'm fine with that one going tbh.
The Draftsman of Doom
No need to apologize, Unknown. It isn't just a length thing so much as how barebones the plot is. There needs to be substantial plot outside of "villain commits atrocities".
![[nja]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/user_ninja_2074.png "[nja]"){kind=small}
Sure, cut the bear.
Edited by SkyCat32 on May 31st 2020 at 3:36:02 PM
Feels good, don't it?
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Goku Black
Cut the bear
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Here's my write-up for Herobrine:
Herobrine is the far more malicious brother of Notch and co-creator of Minecraft. When Notch granted free will to the Villagers and Steves of Minecraft, Herobrine grew disdainful towards them, believing that he and Notch should be worshiped by them instead. Deciding to wipe them out to create his own world of "order," he massacred entire villages by raining fire on them and created hostile monsters to hunt down and kill the Steves, all without a shred of remorse when Notch discovers his crimes.
I also want people to start being more careful with the horror stories they propose.
Frankly, I think we've been a bit overly lenient with stuff by the baseline. A lot of these are just generic horror stories we'd vote down in a heartbeat elsewise. I'm saying from this point on, as it might be a nightmare to go back and prune them? We should scrutinize things as standing out for the genre proper.
And without being meme candidates. I never want to see someone propose something on some drecky internet story because it's an evil dragonfly or whatever. But Creepypasta stuff, put together by bored writers in 20 minutes is something I think people should start turning a bit more of a discriminating eye, too. Just because something can go up doesn't mean it should.
Lizzid people!
Okay. I'll keep note of this from this point onwards.
Cut Teddy.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Demon
Nyarl (no fault of the EP), the Bear
So Gilt and Gryle have about 10 each. I'll let some more votes come in before I start any writeups.
Also one thing I noticed with the entries for Night Watch Discworld - it isn't that Swing is about to torture a man when Vimes finds him, he's actually killing his own torturer to cover the evidence... Which may well be worse.
Trans rights are human rights. If you don't think that, please leave.
Demon
Nyarly (there's something I'd never thought I'd say)
As Lighty emphasized this one to the side with me: yeah, though some of these might just skirt the line into "enough" to count the meme candidates aren't funny, the borderline-shock works are of no merit, they're not fun to discuss and they're not something we wanna be flooded with. While it's technically not a bar and you watch a bad movie and go "Hey, the bad guy might be bad enough" then sure bring it up but "I read 20 creepypastas and think they just edge to having enough of a plot to keep." Maybe let's avoid that?
Seconded. A bad movie, at least, requires multiple people to bring to light, with at least some effort, as opposed to a single person with thirty minutes to churn out "the bad guy tortured people."
Nay to Nyarlathotep and Teddy.
In this case, I guess the Trevor Henderson mythos are precluded for now, considering the "stories" that go with his art are literal paragraphs.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
No to Nyarly.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread