During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I have watched all 3 Violence Jack OVA's. By God they are quite trashy, at one point in the second OVA i thought i was watching trashy hentai, due to it's (admittedly short, only few seconds long, but grafic) depiction of mass rape. Quality of animation is also not the best (especially in the first OVA). Nevertheless OVA's introduced several changes to the arcs they adapt and i think (due to it having lesser bad guys to compete against) i have one candidate from them. Preparing his EP now.
Edited by VeryVileVillian on Feb 14th 2020 at 12:41:57 PM
I’m a preemptive no there just FYI
@ACW - Done!
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Simon Quirt and both Obsidians. Abstain on Nagi for now.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Lighty, you're doing Grimoire!Jinmen, right?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
So, here is my EP based on Violence Jack OVAs
What's the work?
Violence Jack: Hell's Wind is adaptation of an arc from Violence Jack manga, featuring the titular gang as main antagonists and the final OVA in this series of adaptation of Violence Jack manga. Starring Tetsuya as one of the protagonists of the arc, a woman who after being violated by the gang and watching her boyfriend horribly murdered by them, decides to start hunting down and killing Hell's Wind, determined to get to their leader Dante the Immortal. As Dante the Immortal leads his gang to ravaging and pillaging many towns in post-apocalyptic world of Violence Jack (in reality just a territory, which get destroyed by the earthquakes and government won't let anyone out of it), he eventually crosses path with Violence Jack himself.
My candidate is Dante ofcourse.
Who is Dante the Immortal?
A sadistic leader of Hell's Wind gang (presumably working under Slum King, as he called him "a boss"), Dante leads his men to slaughter their way across the wasteland, attacking towns just for fun and completely ravaging them, torturing and killing all the inhabitants. As in the start of the OVA, his gang captured Tetsuya and her boyfriend Jun and kill Jun with a chainsaw, by sawing off his limbs one by one, as he dies from agony and then one of Dante's lieutenants Gokumon violated her (all because they ran over one of Hell's Wind members), then leaving her naked in the rain. After this Tetsuya starts hunting down Dante and his men, they attack their latest target, a town called "Hope Town", destroying most of it, killing people young and old, creating a sadistic executions, like tying men's legs to motorbikes and then having his men ride them in different directions, tearing innocent man alive. Hanging a lot of innocent people in the streets, Dante captures the teacher of town's school and prepares to let his torturer Joker have his way with her (Joker loves to slowly cut people with his knife). Tetsuya appeared and starts attacking his men from afar, forcing Dante to retreat, where he met Violence Jack, as Jack easily slaughters his men, Dante shoves a grenade in one of his henchman's crotch and forces him to drive towards Jack (be suicidal bomber so to speak). The explosion doesn't hurt Jack, leading to Dante having his men shot Jack until he falls. Dante drives away, believing Jack to be dead (in reality he was still alive and saved by children of the town).
Taking that teacher woman with him, Dante wants to use her to drive Tetsuya out of the shadows, by using her as a hostage. This works and he and his gang capture Tetsuya. Having Joker to torture her by cutting her many times, before Violence Jack intervenes. Violence Jack slaughters Dante's gang, as Dante tries to kill him by various means, eventually cutting down Dante's legs. As Dante begs for mercy, Jack simply crushes him beneath his foot.
Heinousness?
Violence Jack standard is very high, even if we take OVA only. Rape and murder of children is extremely common, villains in the first OVA destroyed a village, villains in second OVA commit murder of dozens of people, children included and commit mass rape upon dozen of women. That said, I think Dante manages to stand out a little tiny bit by his sheer sadism and the fact that Hope Town was simply the latest of his targets (making him slightly more heinous than all other villains of the OVAs), we see a shot of his gang ravaging other villages, as one of the residents of Hope Town talks about them. The stuff about tying people's legs to motorcycles and driving them apart as the person torn apart, having his torturer cutting people for fun, hanging people en masse and the fact that this is simply part of his everyday routine makes his stand out. Also, Dante is relatively lower tier than most of Violence Jack villains, he is not a giant as villain of second OVA, he doesn't have resources of Slum King Army (despite supposedly working for him), like villains of the first OVA, and he basically can't actually fight, as all his fighting ability connected to his bike AKA he is really good at driving it.
Mitigating Qualities?
None. Dante is a gleeful sadist, who likes watching people suffer and ready to sacrifice his men the moment it's convenient.
Conclusion?
What do you think? I will say a very tentative Yes.
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
I actually bought Violence Jack last year when I went to an anime convention. I regret nothing. >:3
But yeah, ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
for Dante the Immortal. Literally every villain in the OVAs is a mass-murdering rapist and torturer who isn't above killing children. I don't see how Dante stands out—especially considering the villains from the second OVA.
Edited by Tyk5919 on Feb 14th 2020 at 5:47:27 AM
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Agreed. This is a situation where resources stop mattering. He does nothing to truly stand out from the pack. I can check the manga one day when/if it's ever translated, but...
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Eh, i understand. For me its ripping people apart with motorcycles that makes him stand out a bit for me. So i decided to give it a shot.
Edited by VeryVileVillian on Feb 14th 2020 at 1:50:40 PM
to Simon Quirt.
Dante, another case of jacked up heinousness standard preventing qualifiers of this calibur.
Side note: I did consider E Ping a candiate from a work where the worst villains are all genocidal maniacs or supernatural overlords(hint: the setting is Wo W) on the basis that they had no resources and thus they can stand out, but thinking about it, I don't think they can really stand out now(their crime is some really nasty serial killing described in quest text).
Edited by xie323 on Feb 14th 2020 at 3:42:08 AM
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Obsidian Lord
Obsidian Lord
(Heh)
Simon Quirt
Nagi Homura
Priscilla
Morph
Baron Meliadus
What's the work?
High School Prodigies Have It Easy Even In Another World is a light novel by Riku Misora, where a group of unrealistically talented high school students get Trapped in Another World while in a moving plane. They're heavily injured and are only saved when Elm Village takes them in and treats their wounds. Unfortunately, the empire they're in is evil and eventually tries to burn the village to the ground because one of the prodigies broke up a trading monopoly. In response, the prodigies, calling themselves the Seven Luminaries, organize a revolution to conquer the empire's lands and establish the Republic of Elm, where all are treated equally. They face their share of aristocratic antagonists along the way, including the batshit insane Duke Oslo El Gustav.
The bad news is that only the anime and manga adaptations are translated at the moment. Yen Press is planning a translation for the source material, but it'll take a few years for them to reach the point where Gustav is killed. Even if this EP is approved, it'll only apply to the anime and manga adaptations until further notice.
Who is Duke Gustav?
Gustav was once a friend of Count Gramzham von Blumheart and supported his dream of spreading egalitarianism in the corrupt Freyjagard Empire. However, Gustav eventually became disillusioned with that goal because he found it impossible to satisfy all commoners' interests, causing him to see all of humanity as wicked and believe that the empire's social darwinism is just. While serving as a mage for the empire, his talents and accomplishments catch the eye of Emperor Lindworm, who rewards him with control over a northern region of the empire.
What has he done?
Gustav decides that as a loyal duke, he should "beautify" his lands in order to live up to show off his emperor's glory. He enacts policies requiring all villages and towns to convert all buildings into beautiful, windowed architecture. The catch is that he requires the citizens to pay for this gentrification out of their own pocket, putting everyone into poverty despite the towns' rich appearances. He also requires all citizens to be clean, to dress well, and to always smile, and any who fail to meet this standard of beauty are whipped or killed if they're repeat offenders. Since the commoners can't get much work done under this enforced cleanliness, especially farmwork, they end up having to resort to cannibalism just to survive. Worse yet, Gustav is also taxing his people heavily in order to build a solid gold statue for the emperor. When one of the prodigies, Shinobu, infiltrates a village in Gustav's domain, she finds that the people are suffering from malnutrition and some are filled with enough guilt to push them to attempt suicide. She also finds that Count Blumheart organized a resistance group, the Blue Brigade, to oppose Gustav.
When Gustav's aide, secretly a Blue Brigade spy, protests that making more statues will starve his people further, Gustav considers this an acceptable outcome, claiming that lowly peasants can only show their loyalty to the emperor by dying and that their deaths are specifically what make the statues valuable. Gustav earlier ordered his soldiers to invade the region that the Elm rebels control, but goes ballistic when he learns that his vassals are waiting for the winter to pass before moving further into enemy territory. In a darkly comical scene, he bashes his head against the floor (or statue base in the anime) and apologizes to the emperor for being too slow to slaughter the rebels. He then uses the Fire Fall spell, which has the power to burn down an entire city. His attack will end up killing imperial loyalists in the city too, but he doesn't care because he sees them as failures for losing to the rebels. Fortunately, the prodigies manage to destroy the catalyst for the spell, with the backlash destroying Gustav's arms.
The Elm rebels and the Blue Brigade team up to oust Gustav, and Shinobu manages to crush him under a chandelier in his castle. Gustav attempts to burn down the entire spire he's in and seemingly dies, but the prodigies suspect that he survived. When the Blue Brigade backstabs Count Blumheart and defects back to the empire, Grandmaster Neuro lends them a masked mage, Tanganika, to help them fight the Elm rebels. Tanganika seems to follow the Blue Brigade's new leadership without question at first, but when he discovers the Blue Brigade broke the emperor's status into pieces, he reveals his true identity as a revived Gustav and starts attacking them. In an act of sadistic rage, he converts many of the Blue Brigade members into flaming zombies who are kept conscious while feeling endless pain, with many of his victims begging for death. The Luminaries fire a nuke at Gustav, both to stop him from using Fire Fall again and to establish that any attempts to use Fire Fall on them will result in Mutually Assured Destruction.
The Luminaries hold a rally to announce the establishment of the Republic of Elm, but Gustav crashes the rally in one last attempt to kill the rebels. Their leader, Tsukasa, manages to shoot and break a magic crystal on Gustav's chest, putting an end to the duke's rampage. With his dying breath, Gustav denounces Tsukasa's ideals of democracy and equality as foolish and claims that everyone will be subjugated by the emperor.
Mitigating Factors?
This is tricky, since Gustav straddles the line between Undying Loyalty and fanatical Psycho Supporter. On one hand, he claims that he'll do anything for his emperor and even inflicts self-harm on himself because he thinks he let the emperor down. When he works with the Blue Brigade as Tanganika, he actually doesn't hold a grudge against them for betraying him, since he sees that as a result of the empire's darwinism, but turns on them when they break the emperor's statue. On the other hand, his loyalty has a certain degree of hypocrisy in it, since other evil aristocrats point out that his policies are actually hurting the empire's economy and tax revenue, with Neuro going as far as calling him a traitor for his disservice to the emperor. He's also never shown interacting with the emperor, so it's not clear how much he cares for the emperor as a person.
He was once friends with Blumheart and had altruistic ideals, but he gave up on those ideals and became a darwinistic misanthrope, to the point where he wants to kill off most of his citizens in order to flaunt the emperor's ideology. In his final words, he makes it clear that he sees the emperor as a genius and strongman who will keep the wicked masses under his boot, showing that his support for the emperor is based on misanthropy.
Heinousness?
Many imperial nobles and knights are corrupt and murderous, with some attempting rape. The Starter Villain, Marquis Findolph, attempted to raze Elm Village and force himself on one of the villagers. Additionally, manga volume 6 shows that at least one city uses racial slave labor. Despite that, Gustav manages to stand out by intentionally starving his citizens to death, trying to destroy a city under his enemy's control, and turning several Blue Brigade soldiers into flaming zombies, with the latter act horrifying one of the good members of the Brigade, who states that even traitors don't deserve such a fate. Even if Gustav doesn't go up, he's setting a high bar for later villains.
As for the emperor himself, he has yet to show up in person.
Verdict?
I'm not sure, due to his loyalty to the emperor.
Dante the Immortal.
Alright guys, off to go see the Sonic Movie, wish me luck!
Was the RWBY discussion going to happen today or next week? The season 7 finale came out 2 weeks ago for 1st members but a week ago for the public.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
The MILF Virus
Obsidian Lord x2, Nagi and Simon. For Duke Gustav, I'll only say yes because I have the impression he only has loyalty to the emperor because he wants to keep his status and the emperor does have a strong hold on him.
Going to have to Gustav sorry. Again I see the argument but the fact that he inflicts self-harm if he fails the Emperor's orders indicates that his Undying Loyalty is genuine, and that's too much of a redeeming factor to be a CM.
Yes to Priscilla, Simon Quirt, and both Obsidian Lords.
Abstain on Nagi.
No to Dante and Gustav.
@Lore: Lighty said the discussion was going to happen today.
Edited by falcontalons on Feb 14th 2020 at 5:50:30 AM
Simon and manga!Obsidian
Dante and Gustav
Abstain on anime!Obsidian and Nagi until somebody rewatches the series.
The Lord Of Walruses
Obsidian Lords, Simon Quirt, Nagi Homura, Priscilla, Morph, The Baron, and Moriarty.
to Dante and Gustav
to Gustav. His loyalty to the Emperor seems that he’s more like a Psycho Supporter wanting to maintain his status rather than any genuine care for the emperor
So, question: I have a submission, and there are two characters from the same movie, and 90 percent of their crimes are done together and the only difference is one lives a little longer than the other, but their crimes are pretty much always done together with maybe one exception, and the other does something near identical.
Can I submit them together as one entry?
Hey guys, just got back from the Sonic Movie. It was freaking awesome! I can go into detail on how much I loved the movie, but we can talk about that in the PM discussion. Speaking of which, PM me if you want to know if anyone counts in the film.
If they're not distinct enough and/or share most of their rapsheets, then I'd say you can go ahead. While I prefer that characters get separate entries as much as possible, I recognize that there are cases where that's not really feasible.
Ghandalf, Drafts please.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts