During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to Seb, Rose, Hotel and Trigon.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Showtime!
Oh, for the person who mentioned Feet Of Clay a few days ago, I can do that
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
Happy yes to Trigon and a yes to the Overlook.
Next vampire one, is a dragon/big bad duo. The first?
What's the work?
Dark Shadows/Vampirella is a series by Marc Andreyko, featuring Vampirella teaming up with the vampire Barnabas Collins as they investigate a serial killer and kidnapper...turns out to be a very dark one indeed. The first is her right hand man...Jack the Ripper.
Who is Jack?
A misogynist, brutal serial killer. Jack begins his spree in London, murdering the Ripper's victims. Upon targeting a sixth, the woman is attacked by a vampire, Elizabeth Bathory, who proceeds to give Jack her blood to make him 100 percent loyal to her, and grants him superhuman benefits such as immortality. Over the next century, Jack proceeds to serve Bathroy, bringing her victims, killing for her..and indulging his sadism as a constant serial killer, continuing the ripper murders wherever he goes. In modern day, he's 'The Big Apple Butcher' in New York city, prompting attention from the others.
Jack abducts a number of women, keeping them for Bathory to feed on. After killing several, Bathory tells him to 'go to your favorite hunting groudns and have some fun,' prompting Jack to grin wickedly....he proceeds to head to a club with...loose morals, remarking how 'disgusting' it is and trying to kill Vampirella's werepanther friend Pantha and Barnabas's relative Quentin (a werewolf) when he sees them hooking up, before abducting them....with Bathory? Jack turns the two feral and sets them upon some of the captives for fun.
Vampirella and Barnabas arrive, reaching Pantha and Quentin in time. Vampirella blindsides Jack and snaps his neck, removing him...though the ending indicates he survives Bathory's death and might well return to trouble the heroes later...
Heinousness?
As far as a chief enforcer goes, he's shockingly horrible, with a legacy of brutal sadism and serial murder. No issues here.
Mitigating Qualities?
He's a sexist nutjob who thinks all women are whores and sexuality is revolting. Now, while he's loyal to Bathory, he literally has to be as he's brainwashed into it, but it seems to simply have transferred his misogyny into her service and he relishes the chance to indulge that. So, yeah, I'd say pass.
Conclusion?
A yes to The Ripper.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to yet another Jack the Ripper.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
And the second...the blood countess, Bathory.
Who is Bathory?
As a Hungarian countess, before vampirism, Bathory tortured and killed hundreds of girls for their blood. Upon her prosecution and imprisonment, she was found dead, seemingly contriving a dark pact to make herself a vampire using black magic. Reviving when her body was being transported, she murdered the guards and fled, becoming a gleeful and sadistic murderer for centuries. Bathory found Jack in London, killing his would-be victim and making Jack a pet, using him to gain victims for her.
In modern say, Bathory rewards Jack by allowing him to 'go play' at his hunting grounds, murdering innocents as he desires. Having multiple young women abducted, Bathory turns a number of victims into vampires to serve as enforcers, enslaved to her will, while others are locked in filthy cages while she takes several and painfully kills them when she's hungry, relishing their fear and suffering. Upon brainwashing Pantha and Quentin, she and Jack sic them on the captives for the fun of it, Bathory gleefully remarking about the 'festivities' they indulge in, showing that things like this are just a regular occurrence for her.
Oh, and to eliminate Barnabas and Vampi, she uses a spell to make them see one another as their most mortal enemy to provoke a fight between them. Upon the arrival of Vampirella and Barnabas, Bathory is incensed by their resistance and tries to kill them and the hostages. Vampirella and Barnabas together prove too powerful and bite her throat out before Barnabas twists her head off, destroying her for good...and giving them a vision of her bathing in the blood of dozens of innocents.
Mitigating Qualities?
None. Bathory has a giant body count, heaps of sadism and horrific deeds, and she became a vampire of her own free will. She's the worst in the comic by far, with no hint of goodness to her. Bathory spends every second being as sadistic and evil as possible, with no hint of redeeming quality. She gets pissed when Jack is seemingly killed, snarling "My Jack?!" but only because he's her servant, nothing else.
Conclusion?
A big yep
Lizzid people!
Yes to both.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Those two.
to Jack and Bathory.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Ultimate Moral Compass
Both. Had this one on my to-do list, but whatever. Barely started the comic anyway.
Overlook.
Trigon.
Jack and Bathory.
The Draftsman of Doom
Jack and the Blood Countess.
Showtime!
to another Jack and Bathory
Goku Black
Jack and the countess Dracula.
Wild Child
Trigon, Jack and Bathory.
Scraggle and I will be to Hellblazer soon. Except a cut and possibly about 7-9 keepers.
Goku Black
Well at least a page would solve where the hell to put those examples due to the weird continuity.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
And hello new page ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
BTW, I changed the DC link at the main Comic Books page:
- DC and associated continuities (includes works from Vertigo Comics that are in DCU continuity)
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Not quite; there would still be the issue of where to put the page; DC, Main Comic Books page, or both?
Edited by ACW on Dec 13th 2019 at 11:35:05 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
...7 to 9? Holy heck. Also, remind me, what is Hellblazer?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
That would be the work with John Constantine. Garth Ennis did a sizable amount (don't know how many are his creations).
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Ultimate Moral Compass
John Constantine, created by Alan Moore, Keanu Reeves played him in that Constantine movie. Demons, mystery, etc.
Edited by therealjackieboy on Dec 13th 2019 at 8:43:02 AM
"No running in the halls!"
The long running Vertigo series (300 issues, not counting sides and spinoffs) featuring John Constantine, con man, magician, worst friend to have, and the dark adventures he finds himself in.
to Overlook, Trigon, Jack and Bathory
Ah, OK, I remember now. Thanky.
I like the Keanu film despite not being faithful don't at me.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]")
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]")
Hmm, I'll play around with it and see if I can't do anything.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts