During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Again, here's the quote I request on Cosmos from the My Little Pony IDW comic arc of the same name
- Discord: I did care... once. But you... were never my friend! You stopped caring about what I wanted! You used me! You didn't care about me! That's not a friend! I don't even know what you are! I'm not afraid of you anymore! You will put everything back the way it was before you came back! These ponies are my true friends!
Cosmos: You've changed.
Discord: I have.
(Cosmos looks on at Discord with a sad look, then suddenly grins wickedly)
Cosmos: I haven't. You want to know what I am? I'm Malice Personified!! Of course I used you! What goes better with malice than chaos! And if chaos won't join me as my companion, you can sit at my feet as my dog!
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Majd + Boondocks villain.
Not voting on Ed until I see more opinions from people who have seen the show.
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
See...no. ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
for Ed Wuncler I. I haven't seen the entirety of The Boondocks, but I've seen various episodes, and this show is riddled with this level of audacity and it's usually done to display the absurdity and over-the-topness of the show, and it's almost always Played for Laughs. I read the entire EP, and literally the only thing I could say was:
"Y'know, I can see all of this happening. And I can see myself laughing my goddamn ass off as it happened."
Like, I've seen the episode "The Itis." There was nothing malicious about it from what I remembered; it was just darkly comical—like damn near every single episode in the show. If Ed Wuncler goes up, fine. You all know I don't have the time or patience to argue against someone unless it's absolutely warranted. I just say my piece, and then I'm done, and I let everyone else form their own opinions.
On that note, for Majd Addin. I'm not getting any new information here I haven't gotten from the write-up. And hegelvonaxel's comment about what Abu'l Nuqoud did at the banquet (which I vaguely do remember) is not helping in Addin's favor. If Addin stays, that's fine. I won't fret over it. But from this point forward, we need to seriously think about who counts as a CM in the Ass Ass in Crack franchise in future installments. Because this shit is getting ridiculous if we even have to discuss cutting someone who conducts multiple public executions on a weekly, sometimes daily, basis.
I thought sharks were my friends.
Any votes on either Frollo quote?
RIP KissAnime.
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Ehhh...kinda iffy on both.
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
Easy no to Ed Wuncler I. If I recall correctly, his friendship with Robert Freeman was genuine.
That said, I think Ed Wuncler II is worth an EP.
Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Aug 3rd 2019 at 11:53:44 AM
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
I actually did Ed Wuncler ii
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
Yeah, his amusement park seems iffy and all, but he is a genuine Knight of Cerebus. I fail to see why he was downvoted.
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
Oh and almost forgot.
@Falcon Thank you. The rest was nice
Im gonna Say no to Ed unless others Can Vouch for him.
Also one thing I forgot to say on the Momoka discussion, I'm still an Abstain On Momoka. it's only cause of the Heinousnes concerns. The fact she goes after a ton of innocent people and just kind of ignores the people who, you know, DID that stuff to her, on top of a bunch of other stuff sort of invaldidtes her FE in my eyes At least.
Edited by Kylotrope on Aug 3rd 2019 at 3:03:05 AM
Things are really about to get Fun around here
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Morgan.
I think I have to vote to CUT Addin (wow, now I'm REALLY glad we used the quote about Braddock, and NOT the one by Roth or Addin for the page ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
).
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Going to make a tally for Addin now but this will change:
- Yes (8): Michaelthehero21, GeorgieEnkoom, DelphineTheDelphox, Bullman, PureGrainAlkaSeltzer, TheImmortalAngelNewton, Kylotrope, Keshali
- No (19): Papyru30, LoreDeluxe, DemonDuckOfDoom, ElfenLiedFan90/Me, hegelvonaxel, Tyk5919, ACW, Scraggle, Libraryseraph, AustinDR, lrrose, emperors, 43110, falcontalons, xie323, kingofnightmares, TommyFresh, Lightysnake, miraculous
- Abstain (2): MGD107, therealjackieboy
Feel free to give an opinion on Majd. I'm still not sold either way on him staying and what hegel says kind of cements it.
Also, abstain on Ed Wuncler
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Aug 4th 2019 at 12:09:23 AM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Goku Black
Braddock I think will be fine.
Hes got an extremly high bodycount for a mid tier badguy so he excells for his tier.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
I'm mostly busy this weekend. Not going to have much time to be on or vote here. I might have another Elder Scrolls candidate coming next week before I write up Estre.
"Yes" to Morgan Fear, "no" to Darren, Momoka and Ed Wuncler. I've said my piece on Majd Addin too. The Ur-Example argument is something that applies to genres, not franchises; we allow Hans Gruber and Michael Myers because they set the norm for a trend of similar expies and movies outside their own universe. They defined the standard of their own genre. Applying that argument to Addin doesn't work because the heinous standard of AC is not reliant upon the actions of Majd Addin. He was the first "pure evil" character in the series, but that alone does not define a standard, and in this case the standard has risen enough to leave him behind in its tracks.
I have no opposition to putting up Scar from the remake, ditto the one from the fanfic, but I'm a hard "no" to KH!Scar and I wish people would be treating this with more scrutiny. The effortpost is bloating Scar's actions with weasel words, Fridge Horror, fluff and some outright misinformation to try and boost Scar's standing; his regular actions aren't and can't be treated with the singular awfulness they are in the movie because he's sharing a standard with a litany of other Disney villains like CLU and Frollo (both of whom we've already turned down), his new actions boil down to "trying to kill the heroes", and like Polar said, nowhere was it stated anywhere Scar wants to destroy the Pride Lands. When he's killed, he just turns into the Ground Shaker which is just another generic Heartless boss that's treated just like any other generic Heartless boss.
I'm all for encouraging different opinions in a debate thread, but in this case I'd rather not see Scar go up based on what looks like faulty information and gut feelings rather than a complete picture. We turned down the watered-down Frollo for not really standing out in his universe even though he still has stuff like his attempted genocide, so why should Scar be getting special treatment?
Edited by Scraggle on Aug 3rd 2019 at 10:06:41 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
What exactly IS Assassin's Creed's genre anyway?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I know I'm a few months late for Zera, but his last line, even though it's not meant to make him sympathetic...
''I did not want this... I did not want to be swallowed by Darkness; to be judged on the Day of Darkness. I was ever... afraid...Have I been so wrong? Was it Valmar's Moon that led me here to this cold, dead place? Or was it always only...me...?''
That all vaguely comes off as him actually questioning himself in his dying moments, something a CM would not do.
Does anyone have some sort of counterargument to that?
Or should I create an effortpost to bring that up?
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
@Scraggle This is why I'm abstaining with Scar's case. As not only I don't know the work, but there could be severe misinformation on him. That and KH's standard is pretty high given the horror that is Xehanort. Even if I say yes, it's still pretty weak. Given your argument, I guess I have to vote nay.
Also, adding you on tally for Majd Addin.
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Aug 3rd 2019 at 6:11:59 PM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Goku Black
Action game?
Thats the folder in video game tropes that we put ac on the site
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
@Scraggle You do bring up valid points. Switching to abstain for KH!Scar.
Edited by Michealthehero21 on Aug 3rd 2019 at 4:32:27 AM
Showtime!
to Majd and Darren
Lizzid people!
Chaning on a for KH!Scar based on what Scraggle said. Also a "no" for Ed Wuncler. Also keeping my vote for Majd.
Edited by AustinDR on Aug 3rd 2019 at 4:37:36 AM
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
Switching to no for KH!Scar.
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Sun Hao, the last emperor of Wu in Romance of the Three Kingdoms, who may as well be the only character in the story with no known redeeming qualities. Once he entered the throne, he showed himself to be a hundred times worse than all his predecessors combined. Although beginning his reign as a promising ruler, he became cruel, corrupt and lecherous, obsessed with superstition. As the government and people grew more and more discontent, Sun resorted to torturing and killing as many people as he could, essentially leading to the downfall of his own dynasty.
Lizzid people!
We need an EP for that.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]")
Darren
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."