During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Sure to Bundy
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Ted Bundy. That’s a first for Zac Elfron, right? It’s a shame what Troy Bolton has become.
Now for something a little less real.
What's the work?
The Outcast Chronicles are a fantasy series by Rowena Corey Daniels....now, you have the Wyrd, or mystics, who have lived alongside the True-born men who barely tolerate them, led by the brutal King Charald, who has a mystic half-blood son named Sorne, that he raises against them. As Charald ages, conflict follows, and the worst bastard of all? One of Charald's ruthless barons, Eskarnor.
Who is Baron Eskarnor?
A greedy, audacious man who desires the throne through the noble Queen Jaraile, or Raila, Eskarnor becomes obsessed with Jaraile, who is much younger than her aging husband, with one son...Jaraile is secretly taking steps to poison Charald a bit to keep him infirm and to secure her own power bas, while carrying on an affair with the more reasonable and kindly Baron Nitzane...Eskarnor, seeing Charald's weakness, decides to make a play for things. Coming across Jaraile, he brutally rapes her.
Later slaughtering a bunch of people, especially the soldiers, Eskarnor abducts Jaraile and flees, trying to gain access to Jaraile's son Chedon by using a 4 year old as hostage, only to slit the kid's throat when this fails. Rallying his soldiers, Eskarnor intends on a civil war with Charald out of the way, using Jaraile to secure a legacy to the throne thanks to her own noble bloodline, with her already pregnant, of a child who may be Charald's, or more likely Nitzane's, but who Eskarnor believes is his own...Eskarnor? Keeps Jaraile as a slave and rapes her regularly, to her disgust and hatred, while Eskarnor kills any bystander or soldier he comes across.
It's then Sorne manages to sneak in, and with the good guys, helps to liberate Jaraile. Jaraile marshals the barons as Eskarnor wages a desperate campaign, also plotting to kill Charald and Jaraile's little boy Chedon to seize the throne himself, but his rebellion is crushed and he's dragged before Jaraile. Jaraile intends to execute him personally, but when Eskarnor begins to brag he raped her to the barons? Sorne, to spare Jaraile the rumors and humiliation, seizes Eskarnor and snaps his neck on the spot.
Heinous?
Okay, Charald is a dick, who murdered Sorne's mom, leads bloody campaigns and is generally a very not-nice man who does a lot of horrible things. That said, Eskarnor is a child-murdering rapist, who intends on starting a civil war out of just a hunger for power. Pass.
Mitigating Qualities?
That's a laugh. When the Barons take his wife hostage, to force him to free Jaraile, his reaction is "Hah, go ahead and murder her, I'll just marry Jaraile!" Besides that, no. He's just a power hungry dick, ascribed zero positive qualities whatsoever.
Conclusion?
Keeper.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Baron Bundy
Speaking of "real life" serial killers, do we want to reopen the discussion from a few weeks back on that Traincar Killer that probably wasn't a real person but likely an amalgamtion of different killers. I'm gonna try and see if I can find where that post was. It was actually quite interesting.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
The Lord Of Walruses
to Bundy.
It seems like Tanuma was well received, so here is his writeup.
Tanuma, aka Father Akashi, is a cold sociopath who lead a robbery of gold on the freighter Dragon’s King. During the robbery, he coldly shoots newlywed Yoriko after begging him to spare her husband's life before he and his goons massacre everyone on board. Three years later, taking the guise as a priest, he learns that Yoriko’s sister, Seiko, is killing the men responsible for her sister's death, he tries to strangle her and hide her body in a suit of armor. When her dog Johnny sniffs around the armor, he clubs him to death with a candlestick. When he and the last surviving pirate decide to board the adrift Dragons King, he doesn’t care for the death of his partner when he is dissolved from acid made by the ships only survivor, Dr. Nishizato, who was left insane by the trauma he experienced. Tanuma runs from Nishizato until he kicks him down a shaft into the ships mechanism, crushing him, before trying to use his acid to sink the ship, in order to covering up his crime.
Thoughts?
Also, is it cool of I add a spoiler tag to Herbert Flays name for his CM entry? Feel like I should due to that fact that Flay being the killer was the big twist to Film:Madhouse
EDIT: to the Baron
Edited by PureGrainAlkaSeltzer on Jul 1st 2019 at 8:07:58 AM
I have no idea what I am doing
That is an intriguing issue, make no mistake. I'm a bit puzzled how to handle it...I mean, is it distinct from say, the Phantom of Texarkana whose identity we still don't know?
Eskarnor.
@Lore: My issue with that killer is that to me, it seems like the creators of the series were presenting it in the form of a documentary, meaning they actually believe that he was the one who committed all these crimes. I personally don't think we need to re-open discussion, and if discussion is re-opened, I'm voting ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
.
@ Austin DR: Do you think that version is worth an effort post?
jjj
Lizzid people!
Honestly, no. Not really. I mean, actually going out of the way to depict the exact ways that Bundy's victims were killed? Sounds too exploitative to me.
Wild Child
Eskarnor.
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
to Eskarnor
"I personally don't think we need to re-open discussion, and if discussion is re-opened, I'm voting ."
Unless I'm mixing this up with another guy, The discussion wasn't really finished. It was decided it was best to wait for 2 weeks to finish.
But anyway, if it's been long enough....personally? Sense this was an Amalgam of different stories, while this Is unique it's still essentially a fictional portrayal of real life inspired events.
Edited by Kylotrope on Jul 1st 2019 at 6:17:49 AM
Things are really about to get Fun around here
to Baron Eskarnor
Yes to the good Baron.
I alway forgot to wish Tyk a Happy Birthday, so Happy Birthday!
I hath just found some...I don't know if it's good news or bad news - Teen Titans Go! is having another movie that is a crossover with the orginal Teen Titans. Both Trigon's are gonna be the a Big Bad Duumvirate.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Eskarnor.
Gentle Laborer
Bundy and Eskarnor.
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
Oh and happy birthday Tyk!
Things are really about to get Fun around here
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
Happy birthday, Tyk.
to those I missed.
to Bundy.
Zac Efron did a really good job at portraying how much of a manipulative and depraved sociopath Ted Bundy was. Not showing any of the murders was also good as it's supposed to be told from Liz's perspective.
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
@ ACW I've read Team 8, and so far, I don't think Itachi stood out enough (true, he committed the Uchiha massacre For the Evulz, but it was offscreen. As for his murder of Kurenai, it felt more like Combat Pragmatist since she broke through his Tsukiyomi, and as such, knew too much). Cut it for now, I'll wait for updates and then EP him.
Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Jul 1st 2019 at 3:43:27 PM
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Sure to Eskarnor
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
for Baron Eskarnor.
And thanks everyone for all the birthday wishes. 
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
@Tyk 5919 Np and pretty badass pfp if you ask me 
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Whos that? :3
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Jul 1st 2019 at 9:09:02 PM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Ultimate Moral Compass
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Yeah, but is his pfp better than mine?
Corey Feldman's Angelic 2 the Core album cover. One of the worst albums of all time, but also one of the funniest (for all the wrong reasons, of course).
Edited by therealjackieboy on Jul 1st 2019 at 7:10:54 AM
"No running in the halls!"
Edited by AustinDR on Jul 1st 2019 at 5:33:38 AM