During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
How about you watch them first before you so the effortposts?
I'm sorry Future, I've really got trouble believing we're being given an accurate reading of what happened in the film and the constant piecewise format of information isn't helping. Can someone back this? If not, I'm thinking we may have to table for the time being.
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
That Shadow Master from Double Dragon? Eh... Sure I guess? Aand I have my raison d'etre to see some Western Animation shiz...
Anyways, need to think on Jestor.
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
I thought I remembered enough. I will refrain from doing the EP first as I know I should have been. These were two I thought I definitely had a handle on (with The Fugitive I did), but there are others I know I definitely need to follow-up on first in the future.
Is Nichols the first CM for Jeroen Krabbé?
Should I re-edit the EP for Royce later on and then provide the link?
Edited by futuremoviewriter on May 4th 2019 at 9:06:55 AM
I'm going to ask again: can anyone back you on this? If not, I think we're going to have to leave him off, too many details have been jerked around for me to be comfy seeing this go up atm.
Lizzid people!
Eh, I'd think it's best to put that character on the back burner until someone decides to look into it.
Edited by AustinDR on May 4th 2019 at 9:19:50 AM
The MILF Virus
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Zeverin and Shadow Master
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Agreed.
to Shadow Master, by the way.
Edited by ImperialMajestyXO on May 4th 2019 at 9:31:15 AM
Current mood: sick of your shit
Okay, so I'm gonna ask a weird question: so Halloween Horror Nights has done a number of mazes based around the Halloween franchise, and if I were just basing them on the mazes alone, their portrayal Michael Myers would definitely count. However, all of the mazes are recreations/retellings of the various movies, which I'll admit, I've never seen any of them. If the mazes are accurate scene-by-scenes, would they not warrant an entry due to not being different enough from the original material?
Read "Ghost Stories of Remnant" here.
I'll edit thoughts into one of my above posts, but yeah, let's get somebody else on this too to help me out.
EDIT: Actually I will post separately, but I'm still agreeing to a a second opinion though.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on May 4th 2019 at 10:19:32 AM
If he just does the same thing I think we're fine with the original entry.
Current mood: sick of your shit
In the mazes he's gutting dogs and dunking some nurse's face in acid among other things, I have no idea if those ever happened in the movies, but I wouldn't be surprised if so.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Good to know.
Edited by SumDumNerd on May 4th 2019 at 11:42:35 AM
Read "Ghost Stories of Remnant" here.
He's killed and occasionally eaten multiple dogs in the films, and the dunking death is from the original Halloween II.
Credits are rolling. I think Chen doesn't operate independently, which means Royce and Barrows were involved in the plane crash and Barrows getting killed at the funeral. He also kind of tortures Sheridan, pulling off his monitors and tubes while he reveals himself.
The movie itself is confusing on a few things, so certain things are harder to figure out. Easiest is that Sheridan is a former government agent who turned Black Ops rather than an actual on-record agent (thus why he has a couple different aliases). For example on the harder to determine, the airplane guy who planted the pen gun was given money that went to an account for his sister by Royce and then he killed by Chen. Royce is angry as he asks Sheridan about why he didn't die in the plane or the cemetery, so it makes perfect sense that he arranged those things. Chen claims diplomatic immunity when he's captured, so we don't hear a word from him about why he did any of the things he did.
Barrows getting killed by Chen before Sheridan didn't seem planned. Chen knew Barrows was there to pick up the info that he exchanged a little while ago and seemed to be spotting for him. He only explicitly targets Sheridan and then shoots at Gerard when Gerard shoots at him. Royce is not broken up about Barrows's death and Barrows was legitimately terrified of what Royce would do to him if he betrayed him. I personally believe that Royce planned both the attempt at Sheridan on the plane and the attempt in the cemetery and neither is far fetched whatsoever. That puts Royce's body count at 12 (including the 8 prisoners or guards on the plane) and attempted at 2, so lack of heinousness is out the window.
Again though, let's get somebody to back me up on this. I need someone to confirm.
Uhh...Congrats Austin! Well done!
Edited by futuremoviewriter on May 4th 2019 at 11:42:32 AM
Gentle Laborer
Shadow Master.
What is the setting? Red Scorpion is a 1988 action film starring the one and only Dolph Lundgren. Lieutenant Nikolai Petrovich Radchenko is a professional Spetsnaz sent to the fictional sub-saharan country of Mombaka with the mission to assassinate Ango Sundata, a Rebel Leader who opposes the Cuban communists invading Africa. Nikolai eventually discovers the true nature of the civil war and betrays his commanding officer to join Sundata's resistance.
Who is he? Oleg Vortek is a Soviet general with no limits to his actions. Manipulating Nikolai, whom he sees as an "instrument of war", into believing that Sundata is bloodthristy butcher of men, women and children, Vortek gives him the mission to assassinate him and crush the spirit of the rebellion. Possessing no empathy even for his Cuban allies, Vortek sends Nikolai to their military base as a "technical advisor" to "befriend" a captured resistance commander, Kallunda Kintash, and help him escape so he can lead Nikolai to Sundata, being perfectly okay with Nikolai killing allied soldiers.
Having already destroyed Kintash's village with bombs, killing many civilians, Vortek disgraces Nikolai's position as a Spetsnaz and orders his execution when he fails his mission. After learning that Sundata would be speaking at a village, Vortek declares his intentions to give his answer in ten villages, believing that the key to battle is "response, swift and sure"; what is his response? deploying chemical weapons against civilians and innocent tribes, with not even children and babies being safe from his sadism, as we see when the "blue rain" is poured on a group of people who were simply hearing Sundata on the radio before having their homes torched down, and later with an entire clan of people.
Overseeing every atrocity from a combat helicopter, Vortek helps the Cubans in raiding a village that was affiliated with the resistance by dropping even more bombs, killing Sundata when he sacrifices himself to protect a little girl. Tired of his war crimes, Nikolai gathers the resistance guerillas to avenge Sundata's death by attacking the military base. Realizing that Nikolai was winning the fight, Vortek leaves his men to be captured or die and attempts to cowardly escape in his helicopter, but is intercepted by Nikolai. Even after everything that had happened, Nikolai spares Vortek's life, and as a way of showing his gratitude, Vortek tries to shoot him in the back, only for Nikolai to turn around and destroy the helicopter with him inside.
Mitigating factors? Hell no.
Heinous? Vortek is the most deporable member of the Big Bad Duumvirate. His comrade (no pun intended) has Nikolai tortured and burns another man with his cigar, nothing really comparable to dropping bombs and using chemical weapons against men, women, children and babies.
Conclusion? Easy
Edited by TheMadCr0w on May 5th 2019 at 6:33:24 AM
AFIAK Micheal Myers is being driven by a curse that forces him to be a unrepentant killing machine and not his own freewill so there'd be some agency issues with including him.
He's not like Freddy or Jason where he just kind of kills because he feels like it.
Edited by CryptidProductions on May 5th 2019 at 12:19:25 PM
Yes to the Red Scorpion example. And no, there's no issue with Michael Meyers. That's only in on continuity of Halloween, compared to the H20 timeline and the recent one where he's just evil
Oleg Vortek.
Then the entry would need to specify he's only a CM in the rebooted continuities and not the original John Carpenter movies where he's possessed by a curse.
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Yes to Oleg. And hoo boy while I'm going to get some help for 43110, writing up Saw Boss will be a bit of a chore and as a result, I'm going to delay the writeup a bit until next week or if I figured out to write it. Is it okay with you guys?
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
@Cryptid
First of all sense when did Jason kill Just for the sake of it? Unless I'm mistaken wasn't Jason a massive Tragic Villain?
Also, it was the original Carpenter Films that He was a CM. As the curse thing was only introduced in the sequels Wich had Differant continuity.
Also to Oleg.
Goku Black
Oleg, Shadow master, Zeverin
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Royce and Jester.
I uh think you might have gotten your facts confused. Michael is pure evil in the original version it was only one of those alternate timlines (and a producer's cut at that) where that doesn't apply.
Edited by miraculous on May 5th 2019 at 12:47:05 PM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
For trivia, an early version of Jason X would have had Jason ruthlessly slaughter a holographic simulation of his mother. According to the writer and director, the sequence was supposed to show that Jason had truly become a monster, with whatever humanity he had left being long dead.
Edited by Sircray on May 5th 2019 at 4:48:26 PM
Oleg.
Jason as a CM ? Now that could be interesting
Edited by MovieFan2000 on May 5th 2019 at 12:48:41 PM
Eight people died on the plane. More to come. I'll wait until credits.