During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Then we would have to qualify a fic for Dark Fic on top of qualifying it for Complete Monster.
No, this is all additional work with no payoff.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
How is creating a subpage for darkfic 'additional work?' It keeps it off the regular fanfic page.
No, not all fanfics with a CM are darkfic. Ones that utterly turn a normally sweet Slice of Life into a rape and death filled atrocity? PROBABLY are
Lost in Space
Meh, if we have a Fan Fiction CM page already then there would seem to be no point in trying to split out dark fics. I'm just rambling because people take fanfic in general so seriously.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
How is this?
Douglas Atherton {Miles Cannon to his students) is a teacher who at the end of season 2 raped Naomi Clark, even telling her that because she lied about him sexually harassing her earlier, no one would believe her about her rape. After his past and real name in England is exposed by Naomi, he flees his apartment to escape arrest, only to confront Naomi later on and threaten her with a knife.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
We're going to need to filter these out eventually. If we quarantine them, we don't have to worry
edited 19th Jun '13 10:26:50 AM by Lightysnake
You first need to prove "Dark Fic together with regular fic = bad" though.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Yeah, I think I'll let the darkfic plague we've had here speak for itself.
Said "plague" is about the thread, not the page.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
On the subject of quarantining dark fic...
I don't think it would actually make that much more work, honestly. When judging whether a character is heinous by the standards of the fic, we pretty much have to ask what the fic is like in the first place. So we already generally know when we're dealing with dark fic.
As to whether a quarantine zone is a good idea, given the sheer number of dark fic examples we've gotten, and that the "genre" lends itself towards creating candidates, it might not be a terrible idea to put them all in their own space.
Of course I'm not thrilled about listing fanfic in the first place.
edited 19th Jun '13 11:18:46 AM by AmbarSonofDeshar
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Dangit...Captain Marvel/Shazam already has this:
- Sobek, who spent months befriending Osiris only to lure him into a false sense of security and eat him
- Mister Mind was certainly this in the Fawcett Comics continuity. He was at one point sentenced to die in the electric chair after being convicted of almost 200,000 murders, but survived due to his Bizarre Alien Biology.
edited 19th Jun '13 11:48:21 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Cut and replace with Mind alone.
We voted to cut Captain Nazi and Sobek when I first brought up Mister Mind. Axe them both, and sub in the new writeup for Mind.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Could you please do it? For some reason quoting emails doesn't allow quoting of Pot Holes :(
And then one of us can request the edit to a locked page.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Here are the fanfic entries that I found that I found that certainly qualify as Dark Fics. It wouldn't be much more work to figure out which other ones count.
Dirty Potter brought us an evil version of Winnie the Pooh (although, arguably, his villainy is played for laughs). While he acts no different from the other characters in Parts 1 and 2, he sells his soul to the devil in Part 3...and that's when he starts crossing the Moral Event Horizon...
The Day of the Barney Trilogy turned Barney the Dinosaur into one of the most evil characters ever created in fan fiction. Convincing the children to start a Holocaust that wipes out much of the adult population, he proceeds to murder all children that reach the age of 13 simply to prevent them from reaching adulthood, one of which was Jeremy's best friend Cameron. Once he is accidentally shot in the arm by Jeremy, he attempts to brutally murder him, only to be stopped by Fran. He becomes even worse in the sequel, turning Jeremy's children against him and is also revealed to be responsible for many infamous events throughout history. His henchman Baby Bop is just as bad, considering she impregnated teenage girls with Loved Ones that burst out of their stomachs and gleefully assisted him in his horrific deeds throughout the fanfic.
Gilbert, aka Prussia, goes from a Small Name, Big Ego Jerk with a Heart of Gold to this in the Axis Powers Hetalia fic All He Ever Wanted, reaching the height of his villainy when he brutally tortures and rapes his childhood friend Hungary to stick it to her ex-husband and his former rival Austria (while forcing him to witness it), and then does it again when he also rapes Switzerland's sister Liechtenstein for no real reason at all. Much, much Internet Backdraft has followed. Hetalia Dark Fics like the infamous Financial Crisis Gangbang revel in this trope. In such cases, most if not all of the characters are reduced to this. Debt has China as this. He is annoyed that America and England have not payed off their opium debt. In return, he does things that, as one person said, "make Hannibal Lecter look like Mother Theresa". Among other things, he chops off America's arms and England's legs, rapes them dozens of times, humiliates them, snatches out their eyes, skullfucks England through his socket, whores them out, has them raped by dogs, slices out their tongues, feeds them dog food, uses the infamous medieval "pear" on them, tears out their toenails, and does some weird Pavlov's dog thing with them. Meanwhile, all the countries have been hit hard; China tells America and England that no one missed them. In Hetalia canon, China is actually one of the kindest and most sympathetic characters, and compare it to...well, this. The same authors did the same thing to Canada, making him cut his own brother's limbs off for the crime of not remembering Canada's name (though, admittedly, that has happened a lot). Then, in the same fic, made every single other character into Complete Monsters, torturing and raping America just for the heck of it. These are not the only fics that reduce China to a caricaturesque monster. One that's thankfully a Missing Fic has China torturing and raping a wimpified Hong Kong within hours of the 1997 Passover Ceremony and leaving it clear that he will rape the poor kid every single day from then on. Another, Dollhouse, has him as at least a borderline example: China is at first shown as a troubled nation who cannot handle his decline and is both despaired and shady (the second shows specially when he subjects child!Taiwan to foot-binding), but then he becomes this by not only getting the already broken Taiwan into opium, but by violently raping her while high and taunting her on how she can't get away from him due to her bound feet. Again, compare this to his canon characterization and step away slowly. They get off light compared to what Japan undergoes, especially in fics set during his imperial years, where he remorselessly tortures and rapes a wimpified China during World War II or imprisons/abuses/rapes Taiwan, Korea, Hong Kong, and/or Thailand For the Evulz. For example, this fanfic is supposed to be a Darker and Edgier source of Fetish Fuel as it describes Japan keeping the other Asian nations as an harem after the war (Philippines, Burma, Cambodia, Singapore, North Korea, and Indonesia OCs included), but he comes off as a completely evil, smug, and heartless rapist bastard instead of a Bastard Boyfriend/Memetic Sex God. Among other stuff, Imperial Japan plans to personally rape every single Asian nation save for Taiwan, still sexually abuses her by making her witness all of this while giving him erotic massages, forces the enslaved nation-tans to either "service" him or rape each other for his amusement...And let's leave it at that, okay? Responded to with this fic. He's not really any less of a monster, it's just...directed very differently. Even Bad Men Love Their Big Brothers, after all. Turkey. It was extremely common in the early days of the Hetalia fandom (and still is, to an extent) for Dark Fic about his history with Greece to have him rape Greece as a youth or child and mock him the entire time while doing so with a smirk on his face and display absolutely no remorse about it. It even shows up sometimes in Turkey/Greece shipping fics where Turkey is a Bastard Boyfriend who gets off on raping Greece or generally does everything in his power to make him feel like dirt.
Jerry Tagger in the Pokémon fanfic A Little Night Music. For the majority of his life, he has believed himself to be "superior" to ordinary men, and, as such, he does not care what effect his actions have on other people. This may not sound so bad, but wait till you hear how he tested his belief: when he was eight years old, he reasoned that a truly superior being would be able to kill without feeling anything, so he set his own sister on fire to see how he would react. He felt nothing.
In the Pokémon fanfic Reunion, there are a bunch of OC and returning villains who do horrible things, but there are two characters in particular that stand out as complete and utter monsters. The main antagonist, an OC named Nathanael Butler, starts off just looking like a regular asshole, seeing as how he hits on all the female characters. However, it soon becomes obvious that he intends on raping several female characters, more obvious when he tries to rape Misty, and successfully manipulates sort-of OC character Ka into having sex with him. He also intends on back-stabbing Team Rocket, who is helping him out, by stealing a powerful Pokemon that he's offering funding to develop and murdering countless people in brutal fashions. The other monster is Rocket Elite Frollo (probably an allusion to another Complete Monster), a psychic who kills thousands of people and Pokemon and assimilates their souls into himself to increase his psychic powers. Neither character is given an explanation for their powers, and both suffer a fate worse than death...
Count Fernando VIII in Pokemon Ranger and the Gardener of Gratitude, part of the Pokemon XD Enigma Shadow Series. He expresses extremely sexist views against women, believing them to be nothing but sex objects (parodying his obvious Bishounen appearance). He also murdered at least three people in cold blood - his own parents and an elderly man - for the purpose of obtaining information to advance his own goals. Eventually, he gains control of one of the Olympus Mons and begins destroying his entire city, explicitly getting off to the suffering he's inflicting.
The last place you'd think to find one is My Little Pony fanfic, but Cupcakes manages to completely destroy ANYTHING that resembles what a MLP fic should look like. And with Pinkie Pie and Apple Bloom of all ponies as the culprits. Pinkie tearing off Pegasus wings, cutie marks, and unicorn horns and wearing them like a dress are only the least of the crimes committed. On that note, Eppaljeck. Her Establishing Character Moment involved killing Pinkie Pie and Applejack, right before murdering Painis Cupcake. Her next appearance has her torturing Vagineer, right before killing him. One could possibly justify her killings of Snyphurr, Staregineer, or even Dangerous Bacon, but any respect for her vanishes when she murders Derpy. After this, she is implied to have raped the Demoman over a kids show. However, it really shows during the 4th video in the series; she prevents the innocent bystander from the first video from escaping and proceeds to blow him up. When Fluttershy stumbles upon Eppaljeck's room (filled with even more Eppaljecks), she finds that Rainbow Dash has been used as fireplace fuel. Whilst Rarity is mourning at a graveyard, Eppaljeck rips the graves out of the ground and crushes her to death with them. Twilight Sparkle tries to send a letter to Celestia to find out how to stop Eppaljeck, but is soon interrupted by her. Fluttershy tries to bribe Eppaljeck with chocolate to stop her from killing Twilight, which works...right before Eppaljeck turns Twilight Sparkle into a doughnut and force-feeds her to Fluttershy. Needless to say, it's extremely satisfying to see her meet her end...and really terrifying to see a swarm of Eppaljeck clones appear out of nowhere. Lets just look at Eppaljeck's kill count: Pinkie Pie, Applejack, Painis Cupcake, Vagineer, Pyro, Weegee, Scout, Snypurr, Staregineer, Dangerous Bacon, Derpy, Engineer, Chuck Norris, Heavy, Demoman, Mane 6, Tails, Knuckles, Sonic, the pedestrian, Rarity, Rainbow Dash, Twilight Sparkle, Travis Touchdown, Deadpool, Fluttershy, Dr. Hax, Kenny, and then maybe the entire plant. For that matter, in the My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic Fan Fic Severing And Reconnection, the Adorkable Twilight Sparkle becomes one... when she sadistically murders all of her friends to claim their Elements of Harmony. Lest we forget, Princess Celestia, the mare who sent Twilight out on this mission in the first place.
The version of Discord from the Pony POV Series is easily a bigger monster than his canon self, despite having the same personality essentially. The difference is that he actually gets to the absolutely horrific stuff his canon self never did. For example, he publically announces to Cloudsdale that Rainbow Dash betrayed all of Equestria for her sake then drives the entire town insane right in front of her, pretty much making her watch. But that's nothing compared to the Bad Future we're shown that would've happened if he had won. To put this in perspective, him raising the dead to devour their friends and loved ones is apparently common place under his rule! And that's pretty much the least monstrous thing he's implied to have done. Dying is pretty much a blessing compared to some of the other things he's done to ponies... Applejack's story shows us that, even in the present, this version of him is a total monster. Applejack gets a look at what his rule over Equestria did to a bunch of other ponies. The sadistic things he put everypony through are just horrific. For example, having Silver Spoon's father attempt to behead her. And unlike the canon version, the acts of this Discord are without a doubt Mind Rape in every way, shape, and form. This incarnation of Discord has an extremely sick sense of humor! Luna's Side Story has added three counts of genocide to his list of crimes, which he mentions as if they're no big deal to him. This series also gives us Angry Pie, a fractured piece of Pinkie Pie's psyche that attempts to brutally kill and eat the other parts of her personality to take over. She actually seems to enjoy doing this to some degree and effectively murders Pinkamenia's imaginary friends right in front of her. There's no indication these are more than just her imaginary friends, meaning Angry Pie doesn't have to do this, she just chooses to. What's worse is she was this close to succeeding and taking over. "Epilogue" gives us the Bad Future versions of Fluttercruel and Angry Pie. Angry Pie is prone to brutally murdering anypony she thinks is laughing at her and is implied to have even killed her own pet alligator Gummy and mounted his skin on her wall. As for Fluttercruel, the only thing we learn about what she does is "you don't want to know what Fluttercruel does". Given the other terror-filled details Twilight Sparkle's Bad Future self has no problem telling us, that thought is pretty dang horrifying. Thank Celestia things change in the real timeline... The Dark World arc (which expands on Epilogue) implies that Grogar is one as well. Though we never actually see him in action, Word Of God has stated that Grogar is envisioned as an Expy of Darkseid, and if he had won his war with Discord, his "perfect order" would have been just as bad as Discord's "perfect chaos". Similarly, it's strongly implied in Origins that Celestia's brother Morning Star was one as well. Celestia describes Discord's soulless eyes as being just like his, and more importantly, Morning Star was Discord's mentor, and taught him everything he knows about manipulation. So, we can thank him for Discord becoming the monster he is today. The Pegasus Despot from Patch's chapter of "Gaiden: Seven Dreams/Nightmares", who uses the Blue Shard of the Rainbow of Light (Laughter) to rule a city as an Evil Overlord. But that's not what makes him this. He uses the shard to brainwash mares, including Patch, into allowing him to repeatedly rape them. Some of them apparently rejected him before (given he was a fat nerd, it's not hard to see why), but some were simply innocent ponies who'd done nothing but caught his eyes. His Karmic Death was very satisfying.
Rainbow Dash plays a particularly horrifying monster in the story "Rainbow Factory". What happens to the pegasi of Cloudsdale that fail the flight test? Banishment? Slavery? Oh no, it's much worse. They're taken to a secret room in the Weather factory, where they are brutally mutilated and melted down, ALIVE, into "Spectra", the supplies for making rainbows. And Dash has been doing this for YEARS.
My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic has many irredeemably evil characters in fanfiction, but in Pattycakes, Fluttershy, OF ALL PONIES, became one... Fluttershy, who has an infantalism fetish and takes it out on Rainbow Dash. She holds her prisoner, and the end result is that Fluttershy brainwashes Rainbow Dash into an incontinent Adult Child. Part 2, it gets worse. Scootaloo attempts to find Rainbow Dash, who has gone missing. She winds up falling headfirst into Fluttershy's twisted little nursery, where she forced to perform demeaning tasks. Not only that, but Fluttershy has developed a serum she calls "Foalmula". Terrible pun aside, it's a drug that is completely undetectable and REVERTS THE DRINKER'S MIND INTO A PERMANENT INFANT. To make matters worse, Scootaloo has to expose her idol Rainbow Dash to it. Then, in the conclusion, you get a lovely little two way decision. Scootaloo is presented with two drinks, a glass of water and a bottle of milk, and must drink one. You decide which Scootaloo drinks, choose the glass of water and her mind is destroyed. Choose the bottle of milk, and Scootaloo becomes Fluttershy's disciple and helps Fluttershy drug the rest of Ponyville with Foalmula. And if you chose the "correct" drink, the story ends with a parody of "Want You Gone". It's sung from Fluttershy's perspective, to Rainbow Dash, about how, now that her mind and personality are gone, RD will be a nice, innocent foal and never hurt anyone's feelings again.
The Tiny Toon Adventures fanfic Fifi La Fume: The Story of a Battered Skunk gives us Jason Skunk, a Yandere who is married to the skunkette with two children. As the title indicates, the fic is about Fifi suffering domestic abuse at the hands of Jason. If this doesn't make him despicable enough, he begins showering his abuse on his two children, which prompts Fifi to take them and run away back to Acme Acres. While the fic is presently incomplete, Jason's last move of searching for his family with homicidal intentions proves that he just keeps sailing down the Moral Event Horizon.
''The Hannah Montana sequel story 'I Didn't Sign Up For This' gives us Cheryl/Drew. She is introduced as a seemingly normal college freshman that befriends Miley at Stanford until is revealed in the final chapter that she was the one who orchestrated the explosion that killed Oliver and 8 other people just because they advanced farther than her on American Idol. She is given a somewhat sympathetic backstory in that her father was killed in a car crash, until she reveals she gave him a drug that would give him a heart attack so she could pay for her college. She even kills her minions when she no longer needs them, including her dragon, Professor King, who she was revealed to be cheating on Lilly with throughout the whole story. Another monster is Martin (pronounced Mar-teen). He kills his brother in the same explosion because he was The Unfavorite, and mocks his death on Facebook. He also vandalizes the Music Tech room for no reason.''
In a Phineas and Ferb Dark Fic, Isabella Garcia-Shapiro becomes this in Snapped, when she tortures Ferb, and cuts his organs out, and kidnaps Buford and ties him up, so that she can blame him for Ferb's murder and her being beaten up. This was done so that she could have Phineas to herself.
Brass Hoof, from chapter 2 of Derpy's Album. Even though he is in it only for a little bit, he beat up Sparkler, Sparkler's pregnant teacher Mrs. Hazel, then killed her by mistake, but doesn't care, and shot Derpy, causing her eyes to derp. He even says he likes beating up other ponies just for the reaction. Don't worry, he got what he deserved.
Two of the most frightening examples come from the Vocaloid fanfic From Concert to Chaos, which came from the same author of The Day Everything Changed, with Miku Zatsune and Rin Arakawa. Here's the overview; Zatsune and Arakawa had respectively been dating Mikuo and Len. The relationship did not last long though. Once they became disillusioned by the girls' rotten behavior, the boys broke off the relationships. However, Zatsune and Arakawa absolutely refused to believe it was their fault, and instead convinced themselves that Miku and Rin were somehow responsible and they decided that the two would have to pay big time. So during the live Tanabata concert, they took action by mercilessly and senselessly attacking them on the stage leaving both Miku and Rin seriously injured. Unbelievably, it gets far worse, through Zatsune's extensive planning they cut off the other Vocaloids from the stage with an electric barrier. But Zatsune and Arakawa really enter Complete Monster territory when they trap the more than 16,000 fans inside their seats with a 2 meter high wall of fire. What makes Zatsune and Arakawa even more despicable is their complete Lack of Empathy. In fact they make it clear that they are enjoying every moment of their victims' suffering. They are so evil that even the author himself flat out calls them "complete monsters". Even after they were thrown in jail, they still prove to be quite a threat. Zatsune actually manages to escape from jail and charge over to the hospital where Miku and Rin are, to kill her victim. It is only after she is shot no less than two times and when a gun is pointed right at her head does she finally relent. When they do finally get their comeuppance, it is oh so sweet. Zatsune is sentenced to 140 years in prison, and Arakawa is sentenced to 80 years.
In Silent Ponyville Chronicles, The Colt butchers foals alive and bakes them into cupcakes, and never shows remorse for his actions. He even feeds Pinkie a cupcake made from her own little sister. Celestia herself says no one has committed crimes as heinous as his in centuries, and has to think twice before declining to have him executed.
I'm sure I missed a bunch, but it's a start.
edited 19th Jun '13 3:22:25 PM by Camberf
You guys have still not shown what makes them different enough from regular fics to require a separation (especially one not in line with usual splitting procedures). Zero benefit plus little effort is still negative.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Well, if they fit the description on the Dark Fic page, then they qualify, right?
That...didn't address any of my objections.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
I think we just want to clean up the fan works page without just deleting entries that qualify.
edited 19th Jun '13 3:31:15 PM by Camberf
Blasted post edits.
I still don't see a reason for a split.
edited 19th Jun '13 3:32:23 PM by SeptimusHeap
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
There isn't one. They can get their own little folder on the Fan Fic page.
edited 19th Jun '13 4:40:22 PM by VeryMelon
Isn't that what we're asking for?
I also still don't see the need for this. If there's "too many" entries on the fanfic page, I think splitting by source work would be simpler and carry less of a "look at these freaks writing My Little Pony darkfic" vibe. I freely admit to having that attitude myself, but the page absolutely should not.
edited 19th Jun '13 4:09:04 PM by nrjxll
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
So, we have:
- Mister Mind, Mongul II, and maybe Nightowl's entries.
- Adventure Time: Is the Lick a GDV or CM?
- The Ben10 entries (several other series have YMMV entris but not CM entries).
- The Story Of Ricky: Ever get a clear consensus on the Warden?
Could we have two folders on the Fanfic subpage? One for normal fanfiction and one for Dark Fics?
edited 19th Jun '13 9:14:58 AM by Camberf