During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
V
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
King of Vices and, you say Rasputin is an Omnicidal Maniac, having not watched the film, does Kroenen also participate in the plans?
Goku Black
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Uh Prince Nuada from the sequel also wants to Kill All Humans as well. Im not sure kronenan is bad enough to match either.
Sure, I can add to Hayes's current entry, possibly in the same post as the King's writeup.
To The King of Vices
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
From what I read heinous isn't just actions but its motivation and reasons and such. Rasputin and nuada have higher body counts but Rasputin has some redeemable qualities and Nuada is a textbook Anti-Villain. Kroenen is a sadist who is obseswed with pain and perfection. While his worst crimes were offscreen the tuff he does on-screen(killing hellboysd father for example one of the biggest tearkejerkers in the entire film ) and not to mention its his resources as head of the Thule society that was able to cause project Ragnarok to begin with.
king of vices
Edited by Kylotrope on Jul 20th 2018 at 2:31:42 AM
Things are really about to get Fun around here
V
Actually, we take every villain's body count into account.
Edited by MenInGreyToBlak on Jul 20th 2018 at 11:34:04 AM
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
To previous candidates that i missed but gotta think on the Hellboy candidate.
Oh! And just a note: A poster in the wikia sent me some videos about Morganthe's actions and I watched most of it... Expect an EP from me sooner or later regarding her. I can almost vouch for her qualifies although there's a little problem regarding it.
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Yes to the King of Vice(s). The official wiki and character page say vice, not vices, not sure if that is reliable enough but it would be a little awkward to have a typo, just want to be sure if that's the name she has from the light novels.
Edited by Knack on Jul 20th 2018 at 3:09:16 AM
to Colonel Silveira and King of Vices.
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
As for wether or not Kroenen shared Rasputin intentions.
The Nazis when opening the portal at the beginning were under the impression that the chaos gods would help them win the war and remake the world in there image. This was mere manipulation on rasputins part and its not quiet made clear wether Kroenen knew of this (on the one hand he was Rasputin pupil before becoming a Nazi but its also established he's obsesesed with perfection so it wouldn't be out of Charahcter) but either way Kroenen still wanted to release the chaos gods and again his resources allowed them to try the first time with the portal. Regardless of his motivation neither are that sympathetic seeing as the other would be destroying everything "imperfect"(its established his definition of perfection is terrifying)
Things are really about to get Fun around here
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to Colonel Silveira and King of Vices.
No to the Helllboy one.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Yes to the King of Vices, but no to Kroenen. He doesn't do enough, no matter how sadistic he is.
Silveira and the King of Vices. ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Kroenen for the reasons previously stated.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Slow week at work=me having all the current writeups tweaked already (I'll still post them here Sunday). Anyone got any more? Bring 'em on! 
Edited by ACW on Jul 20th 2018 at 11:39:02 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Alright! Here's my shot on Morganthe since I saw the several videos in which she got involved:
What's the Work
Wizard101 is an MMORPG that is aimed for either children or pre-teens. In this game, you played as an apprentice wizard of the Ravenwood School of Magical Arts. In there, you take a test to determine your Personality Powers-based subject, then set off to comlete quests and learn new spells. And you're also played as a lot of characters whether good or evil. But mostly, you played as a witch/wizard who tried to take some quests and defeat some evil villains including a warlock or a sorceress. In this game, there is one sorceress I felt that stand out the most in terms of villainy and she's probably the most overaching villain of this game as for now...
Let's talk about Morganthe.
Who is She/What Has She Done
So Morganthe is actually an evil sorceress who is previously a promising student from Ravenwood School of Magical Arts. However, Morganthe shows her dark side when she tried to studied dark magic to defeat her own teacher, Merle Ambrose, who is also the head of Ravenwood School of Magical Arts and the King's magician. When one of the students, a bird like creature called Gamma, discovers her plans, she then attempts to kill him in order to cover up the tracks. When founded by Merle, she then sold her brother to him by telling where he were that resulted him being killed.
Fortunately, one of the wizards of the Ravenwood Academy, Malistaire, founds out about her treachery and scold Morganthe by saying that her recklessness endangers others, she boasts about it and says that she is above others and she nearly kills Malistaire until Ambrose found her and called her a disappointment even if she was a big potential for Ravenwood Academy. As a result, she was banished into the void.
Humiliated and betrayed, the young Morganthe then wandered to the lost world of Khrysalis and earned some of her allies through either fear or her cleverness along the way. However, when she were found by the Spider Soldiers in Khrysalis, Morganthe then ascend into the throne as an evil sorceress and as the time went by, she became more evil and more dangerous and the horror that she commits starts from there.
Before the main events started, she is first mentioned in Celestia as the cause of the destruction because she wants to take the inhabitants's Astral Magic for her own. While the annihilation was offscreen...I felt that the results were pretty much onscreen as it was sunk into the underwater. After the heroes rescues an explorer Thurston Puckett, she then reveals her ulterior motive: Use the Astral Magic to fulfill the ancient prophecy which will caused a world destruction and tried to remake the Spiral in her own image. Not only that, it was also told that she tricked a King by putting a crown that turns him into a dragon which resulted a certain realm dying and then almost kills the king with a poison when he turns back against him.
Her worst act however, is when she comes into a world called Azteca. Where she summons her minions to captures the inhabitants from the world and torture them so that they could make a Celestial Choir for her but later on at the story, she then proceeds to destroy it by performing a ritual to call the Meteor Xibalba to crash into Azecta. When the hero confronts her before this happens, she laughs and says that she made sure that the hero couldn't stop the meteor by sending her forces to distract him/her down below and then gloats that she will lie to Merle Ambrose that the hero died well and after this, she then sent Malistaire to kill the hero.
In the final battle in her own world, Khrysalis, she is planning to destroy the Spiral and make it in her own twisted image. Right before she fights the wizard, she sadistically taunts him/her about how she kept beating him/her while gloating about how she destroyed Azteca. When she almost defeated, she then use her final spell and threatens the hero to obliterate his/her memory before the final spell backfires to her and sending her into the void.
Freudian Excuse/Mitigating Factors
Ah nope! Morganthe has no Freudian Excuse on the thing that she done. And I felt that she doesn't care that much with her allies that she formed when she was trapped in Khrysalis. Her worst acts are committed after her teenage years is over. So I don't think there's no issue here but I think you will have a problem regarding her crimes which I will mentioned on the heinous standard section.
Heinous Standard
Okay, so I won't going to downplayed this but I will tell you something: There are some of her crimes that are off-screen like the results of Azteca being destroyed by the meteor Xibalba that she sent or the destruction of Celestia when she appears. However, here's the thing: The stakes regarding the destruction of Azecta is pretty high and after Malistaire is defeated, you talk to one of the Azectans inhabitants who says that while Azteca is destroyed, some of their people will live on. The planet is then blown up offscreen right after the hero leaves. But the player then tell one of the staff of Ravenwood Academy, who is horrified, and then tells Ambrose about it, who says that their story will be remembered. And not only that, In Pirate 101, the canon sister to Wizard 101, the evidence of Azteca's destruction is clear, as there are only a handful of Aztecans who have survived, and they mention that Morganthe destroyed their world. Also, despite we didn't see the apparent destruction of Celestia, we still see the impact of it being destroyed and the real civilization is replaced by Crustacean Empire. So I think it will not be an issue here I guess?
Aside from that, she pretty much met the heinous standard with her wanton destruction between the whole worlds just to get Celestial Choirs, trying to sold her brother to get into the good side of a wizad, practicing dark magic to defeat her own teacher and so on. Many of her offscreen actions either have the aftermath shown onscreen, or are mentioned a lot, like Azteca's destruction, which starts onscreen with meteors falling and is destroyed offscreen. And compared to other villains, she has no redeeming factors that mitigate her evil so yeah...I'm a bit torn on this one.
Final Verdict
You decide if Morganthe could fit on this trope or not as I'm a little bit torn on this one. But overall? She is a sick, cruel, twisted, depraved, and downright sadistic psychopath who cared for no one but herself and getting power, she is a egotistical omnicidal maniac who is unrivaled in terms of depravity and a monster with a God-complex.
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Didn't someone do Morganthe ages ago but was banned?
Either way, she sounds bad enough despite a bit of offscreen villainy. I'll give a
Edited by ReynTime250 on Jul 20th 2018 at 5:41:34 PM
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Goku Black
It was Witch of the absolute. After she got banned again, we decide to ignore it. It's what happens when you lie on this thread all the time, even of your character does count, no one is going to be live you.
Anyways to Morganthe
Edited by miraculous on Jul 20th 2018 at 9:52:55 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Gentle Laborer
Morganthe
@Knack: I went with Vices based on a fan translation, since there's no official translation. Interestingly, her name in the Japanese wiki is Akutaru ō, which Google Translates to Evil King. Yes, it includes the kanji for that Aku.
Morganthe, Silveira, and King of Vices all get an easy from me.
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
The other villains may have redeeming qualities, but how heinous are they compared to Morganthe?
I'll give a tentative yes. Definite yes on the King of Vice(s) as well.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
My next Cheo-yong post, btw: Who is Our Villain?
Now, this is a special Asshole Victim type...now, the Big Bad of the season is a vicious ghost and Serial Killer who despises Cheo-yong and years ago had been murdering people close to him, or just to hurt him. Cheo-yong lost his best friend stopping him...it turns out the ghost is an evil spirit he banished named Kang Han-tae....but the reason?
Years ago, Han-tae was a normal man who was part of a religious congregation led by the reverend Moon Doon-hyun...now Moon is a kind man, deeply loved by his congregation, who live out in the rural regions...Han-tae was living with his fiancee who he was deeply in love with until he found out she was pregnant....then Han-tae's best friend found Han-tae's fiancee in the middle of the night, being gang raped, led by an assailant who he never saw....who, shocker? Turns out to be Moon Doon-hyun, who is in truth a morally bankrupt, evil crime boss who extorts, cheats and manipulates his followers, kills anyone who gets too close or troublesome, and rapes his female followers backed up by a nasty gang of thugs he hires to get things done. Things went really wrong, and Moon ended up accused of rape by the authorities. Without evidence, Moon was freed, still having the support of most of his congregation...however, Han-tae's friend realized it was him when he saw a mark on his hand where he saw Han-tae's fiancee bite her assailant....trying to warn Han-tae, Han-tae was ambushed by Moon and his thugs and murdered.
Moon then went to pay his fiancee a little visit and kill her as well. Han-tae's ghost, attached to the world by his love for his fiancee desperately appeared to his friend, trying to force him to save his love and their unborn child, but the man was too cowardly, forcing Han-tae to get a bit harsher with him. Unfortunately...Cheo-yong happened upon this and believe Han-tae was an evil spirit. And banished him without letting him explain. Han-tae's fiancee and unborn child were murdered by Moon. an enraged Han-tae succumbed to furious despair, his hatred for Cheo-yong preventing him from crossing over in peace, and he began to wreak his revenge by murdering anyone he could think of to punish Cheo-yong, while also terrorizing Moon as well, promising to kill him after he tortured him enough. Despite being defeated, Han-tae returns years later, aiming to kill Cheo-yong's best friends, including Sun-woo, to force him to feel Han-tae's pain. When he hears the story from Han-tae's former best friend, Cheo-yong goes for Moon and the rest, but Han-tae gets there first and absolutely butchers them in retribution....forcing a final battle between Han-tae and Cheo-yong, before Cheo-yong defeats Han-tae and banishes him from the world of the living at last.
Mitigating qualities?
No, nothing. Moon puts on an air of charisma and loving kindness, but it's a mask for the murderous rapist he really is. He's a predator, sexual and otherwise, who takes advantage of the faith of believing people and then kills them if they grow too troublesome. Han-tae, as it turns out, is an utter nightmare with one of the highest bodycounts on the show, is viciously sadistic and doesn't really care that he's killing innocent people, including an innocent schoolgirl like Na-young, who realizes he's her murderer later for no reason other than he thought an extra body or two would trouble Cheo-yong. However, Han-tae is a straight up Tragic Villain and even until his final scene, he's screaming at Cheo-yong for the death of the woman he loves and their child, blaming him for rendering Han-tae unable to save her life. He clearly loves her, even with as monstrous as he's become, and while Moon couldn't possibly have predicted all this it's still his fault.
Conclusion?
I'd go with a keeper.
Morganthe
