During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
In love with an Uptown Girl
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Yeah, read the screenplay for college work. Very interesting discussion.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Screenplays can be different. There was that one Scraggle, I believed, proposed.
Ravok: Is Alpha-One pre or post crisis, or other continuities?
edited 23rd Dec '17 10:52:48 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
RIP Toriyama
Different continuity. Superman is actually nothing but a comic book characters in The Mighty, and said comic is the thing who inspired Alpha to become a "superhero."
Alrighty....last candidate from me for the Holiday season.
For years, I have wished for a simple thing. To be able to propose a villain from my favourite franchise of all time. I've read/watched all of the main works, read the tie-ins, and even dabbled in fan fiction (MISTAKE), all to no avail. I could have stopped....but I refused. (Meme No. 1)
Hope was lost...until I played the newest video game of the franchise. Having only done so for fun, imagine my shock when I discovered there was indeed a candidate....and oooooh, boy, what a time I've had since.
What's the work?
Jojos Bizarre Adventure, the manliest, most over-the-top manga to ever exist! Regarded as one of the vanguards of the classic "Muscular guys screaming at each other and using awesome powers" Shonen genre and all the tropes that come with it, this franchise is decades old and has had eight "arcs" in the manga, titled "Parts," thus far, with Part 8 still ongoing.
Following the Joestar family's adventures throughout generations, this is an amazing story of legacy, family, and actiony-action all wrapped up in one, and in the newest video game, Eyes of Heaven, based around the franchise, we follow a story that brings characters from every arc together, to save the entire multiverse from destruction! HORY SHEEET, OHMIGOD! (Meme No. 2)
And just who could bring all of the Joestars, their allies, and enemies together across time and space? What madman could do this? Whose ego is so huge that he would dare to tamper with unlimited timelines and realities?!?!
Who is he?
You thought it was would be Kars?! Kira?! Valentine?! Wrong! You thought it would be Diavolo, Pucci, or Damo, BUT IT WAS DIO!!! (Meme No. 3)
For those unaware of one of the greatest villains in manga history, DIO was once a human named Dio Brando, however upon being adopted into the Joestar household, he began plotting to murder the entire family and leave himself the sole heir of the Joestar fortune. A few battles later, and Dio transformed himself into vampire. A few decades later, he gained the ability to stop time with his Stand (The name of superpowers, basically) The World, better known as ZA WARUDO! (Meme No. 4)
Now, in the "real" timeline, DIO was beaten in Part 3 by Jotaro Kujo, and never resurfaced again. However, in Eyes of Heaven, we learn of an alternate universe where Jotaro lost to DIO in the final fight....and DIO fulfilled his goals.
What has he done?
First off, we see through flashbacks and travelling through time several of DIO's crimes from the original story....killing people by the dozens and turning them into his vampire zombie slaves, siccing various Stand users onto Jotaro and any innocents in the area, and ultimately butchering many of Jotaro's friends in their final fight.
In the alternate universe, DIO succeeded in killing Jotaro in their final fight, and, teaming up with his Dragon, Enrico Pucci and his Stand Whitesnake, DIO sacrificed 36 people in a scheme to power up his Stand, The World, turning it into The World Over Heaven. Using The World Over Heaven, DIO gained the power overwrite reality, and promptly tears apart his world and rewrites reality to where he is god, suitably named Heaven Ascension DIO, and the new humanity is bent to his every whim.
As Heaven Ascension DIO (Known as DIO, Gone To Heaven in the English translation for some reason) finishes rewriting his universe's reality, he stumbles across the villain of Part 7, Funny Valentine, using his Stand Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap (D4C for short) to travel through dimensions. Learning from Valentine that there are countless more dimensions out there, Heaven Ascension DIO refuses to accept that there are worlds out there not under his thrall, and begins working with Valentine to invade the "main" timeline.
Kidnapping several of the various JoJo family's allies across time and space, Heaven Ascension DIO poisons their souls and corrupts them into his slaves, at which point he sends them out to track down the various parts of the Holy Corpse, the corpse of a powerful man that Valentine clued Heaven Ascension DIO in on. As his new slaves attack and try to murder the various JoJos across time, Heaven Ascension DIO begins teaming up the villains of each Part with one another and sending them out to hunt down the Holy Corpse parts as well, with them putting hundreds of innocents in danger at a time and killing many as well.
Once his minions and corrupted slaves fail, Heaven Ascension DIO gathers all of the JoJos to him and tries to steal the Holy Corpse parts from them, however they luckily escape. Later learning that Valentine has been working with the JoJos, Heaven Ascension DIO offers him one final chance to be his loyal slave. Valentine refuses, revealing that he has been pretending to help Heaven Ascension DIO all this time simply to stop him, as Heaven Ascension DIO's plans are much more horrible than anything Valentine wants. At this, Heaven Ascension DIO has The World Over Heaven erase Valentine from all existences.
Once more corrupting various allies of the JoJo's, Heaven Ascension DIO has them all fight while he personally takes on Jotaro and Jotaro's daughter, Jolyne. Giddily revealing that this was all a set up to get the JoJos to gather the Holy Corpse parts for him, Heaven Ascension DIO uses The World Over Heaven to murder all JoJos and their allies, absorbing their tortured souls into himself along with the Holy Corpse to give himself all the more power. During their duel, Heaven Ascension DIO turns Jolyne into his slave and forces her to fight Jotaro, taking such sick glee in watching Jotaro being forced to fight his own daughter, that one could say he was acting like he....how should I put this...HE GOT A BONER! (Meme No. 5)
Heaven Ascnesion DIO ultimately murders Jolyne and absorbs her soul, then begins tearing apart reality and annihilating the Earth as he goes. Heaven Ascension DIO proclaims his plans to finish Jotaro off, as his Stand is USELESSUSELESSUSELESSUSELESS (Meme No. 6), then travel to all dimensions until all realities are DIO's reality. Unfortunately for Heaven Ascension DIO, Jotaro's stand Star Platinum is the same kind of Stand as The World, and thus, with all the conditions for making The World more powerful met, it also powers up Star Platinum, enabling Jotaro to fight Heaven Ascension DIO to a standstill.
Deciding it's time to say "GOODBYE, JOJO" (Meme No. 7), Heaven Ascension DIO tries to murder Jotaro, however is severely injured when Jotaro blasts his arms off....in a final scummy move, Heaven Ascension DIO blinds Jotaro with his blood and tries to finish him off, only for Jotaro to use Star Platinum to destroy Heaven Ascension DIO, releasing the souls he has absorbed and restoring Earth to its true form, ending Heaven Ascension DIO once and for all.
Freudian Excuse or other redeeming features?
Though no mention is made of it in-game, DIO still has his canon back story of being raised by a drunken, abusive father in poor conditions....and just like in-canon, it doesn't justify anyting. At all. DIO is a monster who everyone acknowledges has been "EVIL SINCE BIRTH!" (Meme No. 8), and the crap he gets up to is way out of any sort of justification one could have for "I was poor and my daddy was mean."
As for redeeming features, the only possible one is his relationship with his Dragon, Pucci, who he calls his "dear friend" and is affable with, much like in-canon.....but this is completely smashed to bits when Pucci dies while fighting against the JoJos, and DIO's response is to congratulate Jotaro on beating Pucci. Some friend, yeesh.
Heinousness?
Now, I know what you're thinking. This guy's a bastard, how many lives has he ruined, how many people has he killed?!
The answer for DIO is simple. Do normal people remember how many breads they've eaten?! (Meme No. 9)
DIO has all of his canon crimes here (Not as detailed, though), plus successfully devouring 36 souls and wiping out then rewriting his universe into one where he is a god. He then hopes to repeat this in every dimension, and goes about kicking it off by corrupting the JoJo family's allies and friends and forcing them to fight their loves ones. He also kills his own subordinates, shrugs off their deaths, and is an all-around egotistical prick....as DIO should be.
While the canonicity of the game is dubious, even if WAS in-canon with the manga, DIO would still easily count, and in fact be the most mass affecting villain in the entire franchise.
Final Verdict?
At the end of the day...we have a simple question. Does Heaven Ascension DIO count? The answer?
YES YES YES YES YES YES (Meme No. 10)
edited 23rd Dec '17 12:47:30 PM by Ravok
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Goku Black
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
DIO
I was wondering about him but hadn't played that game.
edited 23rd Dec '17 1:44:31 PM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Dio.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to the game for only being rated Teen. Seriously, isn't the anime and manga ultraviolent? How the hell you gonna make the game for teens?
Also, as a note, this week's batch may be Monday instead of tomorrow.
edited 23rd Dec '17 12:46:04 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
In love with an Uptown Girl
Dio. Gotta check out more Jojo later.
So, the After the Truth screenplay version of Mengele, I still need some more votes for him. I understand if some people wish to hear about the movie version and wait on it completely, though. To be clear, I don’t believe a film made in Germany dealing with Josef Mengele standing trial would really try and make him sympathetic, and as I have said, his claims of being a Well-Intentioned Extremist are complete bullshit.
edited 23rd Dec '17 1:00:45 PM by Vampireandthen
Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
The Unknown Unknown
Yes to KONO DIO DA
A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
Messenger from another dimension.
Absolute yes to DIO and Jojo is my favorite Anime of all time!
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
In love with an Uptown Girl
I can tell.
DIO
Can't do a Jo Jo effortpost without referencing the endless "Bloody Stream" of memes.
BTW forgot to mention, has Udai Taxim from Cowboy Bebop ever been considered for an effortpost? He's admittedly not as bad as Vicious, but he's only a Monster of the Week and causes more deaths than the other villains besides from Vicious. I was thinking this could be a Shou Tucker case, where he doesn't have the resources or the time-span necessary to be as bad as the Big Bad, but still does enough.
I did check the search bar, but nothing came up.
edited 23rd Dec '17 1:40:25 PM by ReynTime250
if you feel like counts you can EP him yourself
to DIO! DUH!
edited 23rd Dec '17 1:49:08 PM by G-Editor
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
to DIO
Kars Dabbing intensifies
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
DIOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO certainly counts in this video game.
Wild Child
Dio.
Dio
Anyone in favor of cutting Langiva? She's nasty and manipulative, for sure, but she seems like she genuinely loved her husband, who was killed by Christians. That would explain the hate she feels for them.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
I thought that I had to let someone else cut it if had been previously approved (which she was). But I'll do it.
edited 23rd Dec '17 3:33:28 PM by Stellarvore
If so cut
Goku Black
Lavinga
Honestly reading the trope page and considering the main character becomes a Knight Templar who hunts and kills innocent women as part of a Witch Hunt. I think cutting her is fine as it seems to have a messed up morality system with no one being totally in the right.
edited 23rd Dec '17 3:26:24 PM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
DIO, naturally.
It's been over two weeks so let's do this
What is the work
Who is he
That guy that plays Chris R
What has he done
He was mean to Denny in the Film Within a Film
Denny owed him money
Mitigating factors
The actor enjoyed the film at the end but that was clearly ego stroking
Heinous by the standards of the story
Tommy Wiseau got naked and was mean but he had way more resources also being an actor is no excuse for your character being mean
Conclusion
Keep him please I worked really hard on this
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
A Million yes to that Bastard cuz he's actually DIO Brando in disguise
This must be the work of enemy stand!!!! ORA ORA ORA ORA ORA to Tommy Wiseau ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA!!!!!!!! Ohi Mark
edited 23rd Dec '17 4:00:06 PM by ElfenLiedFan90
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
I couldn't find it streaming, but it's on my Netflix DVD queue and will be watched in a couple weeks. Anywho,![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]")
Mengele for now.
edited 23rd Dec '17 10:28:44 AM by DemonDuckofDoom