During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I don't know. That's actually from the current entry... Nope. Cut and link here (or cut and PM the troper). That may be a contender, but he's not been discussed.
Alright, so that's a firm "no" on Gaira.
Do all Toho films share continuity?
@ACW, Quenthel was a minor character in The Legend of Drizzt novels until she was killed by Drizzt in the Legacy of the Drow Series, but she was resurrected in the unrelated Starlight and Shadows. She rose to prominence in the also unrelated War of the Spider Queen before returning to the Drizzt series in a position of power similar to her mother Yvonnel. The Spider Queen series is six books and I've only gotten through 4 so far so it will take a while on Quenthel. After I'm through with her, she may very well wind up under the Forgotten Realms heading itself instead of the Legend of Drizzt.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Ah, so Quenthel's pending. Cool. And man, Tiago sounds like an Anti-Climax boss: "Drizzt, having been given an enchanted buckle that pulls out his magic bow, shoots a lightning arrow straight into Tiago's face and causes his head to explode.." That sounds...kinda lame.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I'm really not giving it justice with my description. Quenthel and certain other power players deliberately set up Drizzt and Tiago to fight in the chapel of House Do'urden to determine who will become the instrument of Lolth's will. The fight scene lasts for several pages, is well written, and serves as a satisfying conclusion to Tiago's story arc that lasted for nearly 8 books.
The real anti-climax came when Drizzt canonically Killed Off for Real the actual demon lord Demogorgon at the end of the same novel.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Ah, I stand corrected. That DOES sound cool (well, the fight anyway, not the bit about Demogorgon).
Unrelated: I cut the bit about Piedmon being The Man Behind the Man.
After looking up some info on the wiki, he apparently was in charge of Devimon the first Big Bad, but that's all. (Though they might have been referring to Lady Devimon and just left out the "lady" in it.)
edited 12th Dec '16 8:21:15 AM by Awesomekid42
The actual death of Demogorgon is amazing, but sadly only covered in a couple of chapters. An entire Illithid city places a combined reflective psionic barrier on Drizzt, the entire city of Menzoberranzan hits him with magic, and Drizzt channels all that magical energy through the psionic barrier into his scimitars and cuts Demogorgon in half vertically. Drizzt is literally left buried in the entrails of a demon lord, and Demogorgon is apparently dead for good since the Underdark had been infused with the Abyss.
edited 12th Dec '16 8:22:23 AM by LoreDeluxe
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Ultraman Orb is winding down, and just saying this now: unless something REALLY changes with his character, I think I'll probably do an effort post for the Big Bad, Jugglus Juggler once the two week thing is past for its finale.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
That'd make it 5 for Ultra Series, once Gargorgon gets written up.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
So, anybody up for cutting Clark Nelson from the Godzilla page since everything he did sans gunning down villagers (which wasn't nearly as evil as the write-up made it look) is apparently bog-standard for human villains in Kaiju films?
A total has-been.
On Piedmon, it's very hard to miss, but the episode where we see how he (along with Machinedramon's forces) massacred the Digital Guardians and attempted to steal the tags and crests indicates that since he and the Dark Masters were at this ever since that long ago, they were in charge of all the other Big Bad evil Digimon, the most notable one being Myotismon since he was given control over the Guardians' castle after the Dark Masters had cleared it out. It never gets directly stated, though, so it probably doesn't belong in that entry.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Clark (i.e. cut him).
So I just got a from out of nowhere message from some poster named Wistful Empress claiming that my opposition to Barrington going up two freaking years ago makes me a rape apologist. I got similar messages at the time from a poster with a different handle; I don't know if this is the same person but the pattern seems clear, especially in light of the ban evader who was just evicted from this thread. If this poster crashes the thread in the next little bit be aware of who we're dealing with; and if someone else shows up railing about Barrington, be aware of what we may be dealing with.
Very obvious sockpuppet, there. I'd recommend reporting it posthaste if you haven't already and any others that might try and come on the thread or message you.
I already reported them for vandalism and they've been suspended or bounced or whatever.
Lost in Space
That user was toasted. We're investigating why the bounce code didn't block them to begin with.
edited 12th Dec '16 11:16:10 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
@Scraggle
I reported them as soon as I got the message. Glad to see others did as well.
Based on the patterns of behaviour so far, it seems this person is not only obsessed with Barrington but with refighting the original discussion on him, given the PMs aimed at me, despite the fact that I wasn't involved in the most recent conversation involving him (in fact I barely even remember who he is). One gets the impression of someone sitting at home and constantly rereading an old argument to build up their rage.
@Fighteer
It seems like someone is very determined to bring their crusade to the site and is prepared to use every workaround they can to do so. Based on the accusations of rape aplogia it seems to be someone who takes Barrington's exclusion from the CM List as some sort of personal insult, or worse yet, as a blow to (their personal version of) women's rights. That's a rather frightening attitude, and I can see how someone like that would be determined enough to find a way around the ban.
edited 12th Dec '16 11:22:44 AM by AmbarSonofDeshar
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Jebus Christos on a cracker. There's having a strong opinion about certain characters that we feel should (or shouldn't) be counted, something which we've ALL probably done at least once, and then there's obsession.
Goddamn, I mean, it's getting to the point where I'm half-tempted to play Tactics just to see if it's offscreen.
edited 12th Dec '16 11:26:58 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Tiago
Don't play it. You'd just be giving the obsessed one what they want.
Lost in Space
That user was a sock of Witch Of The Absolute. And there's no need to keep going on about it.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Anybody got something new to talk about? I've just finished the rough draft of my thesis so I'll have more free time starting later this week, when I hope to finally propose some examples for the first time in a long while
edited 12th Dec '16 11:41:43 AM by AmbarSonofDeshar
Well I did ask if anybody's up for cutting Clark Nelson for something to talk about.
edited 12th Dec '16 11:42:26 AM by Awesomekid42
Only saw two kaiju movies before so I don't really know the standard for human villains in them.