During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
To Rowan
The reboot's page on this site, and it's character sheet classify Rowan as genuinely Affably Evil. Is it true that he is Faux Affably Evil, and this is just another case of confusing the two tropes?
edited 28th Jul '16 9:38:53 PM by bobg
jjj
Lizzid people!
Pretty sure he's faux.
Wild Child
Rowan North.
Caesar
Definitely a misuse. Rowan oozes sadism and maliciousness in every one of his "polite" phrases. For instance, he implores Holtzmann, one of the Ghostbusters, to take a look at the view outside....right before trying to fling her out the window while sadistically adding, "This is fun, right?! Goodbye."
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
As much as I trust Ravok...I'm not really sold on Ghostbusters having a CM....this is reminding me a bit of the Clinch Leatherwood debate.
Lizzid people!
For the film or the franchise? There's already two for western animation.
@ Ravok: Bleh. What a creep.
I'm... immensely skeptical of Rowan. All things considered, he's heinous enough, but it's the tone that really, really concerns me. Consider me a permanent abstain.
Caesar
As I said, I don't lean either way in regards to Rowan, but I have to point out that the tone of the film gets very dramatic at times. Is there some lightheartedness to said dramatic scenes? Yes, but it's still played straight and seriously.
It's really (I hate to make this comparison) similar to, say, Guardians of the Galaxy. Now, don't get me wrong, Ronan is far more intimidating than Rowan (Heh, the names rhyme), but when it came down to it, Ronan was surrounded by people, like Star Lord, who cracked jokes, listened to music, and challenged him to a dance-off to distract him. Is that balls-to-the-walls lighthearted and funny? Yes. Did that affect Ronan's threat or how serious he was played? Nope, and I don't think it should affect Rowan's credentials, either.
Sure, Rowan is Laughably Evil and slightly entertaining to watch, but that doesn't change the fact that he is a Knight of Cerebus who is played dead straight and terrifies the Ghostbusters with his plans.
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
to that Conan guy.
edited 29th Jul '16 12:33:52 AM by Awesomekid42
@ 64807 Lightysnake, I respectfully disagree, we have had monsters in mostly comedic works, like say Galaxy Quest, if Ravok says Rowan is being played straight, I will trust his judgment.
I will give a slight yes to Rowan, Ghost Busters is not like Care Bears or Dora the Explorer, the fact that the Ghostbusters animated series have a few monsters in them, proves the concept is serious enough to have monsters. Also I'm not sure Gozer or Vigo were played for laughs.
If we are going to say certain franchises cannot have monsters (except for obvious examples like Care Bears or Seinfeld or anything that wouldn't hold up to a little common sense) then we need strong guidelines to outline why those franchises don't count and I don't think Ghostbusters should be among those excluded franchises.
edited 28th Jul '16 11:01:52 PM by Overlord
Lizzid people!
Agreed. Gozer's problem was he was a GDV, right?
edited 28th Jul '16 11:01:55 PM by AustinDR
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
She, and it's partly that and that Gozer operates on Blue-and-Orange Morality - and fails the heinous standard anyways.
Lizzid people!
They; makes sense; I hadn't watched that film, so I was curious.
Yes, also Gozer likely had alien morality if it did have any characterization.
I don't think Gozer has a gender, it can shape shift into whatever form it wants.
edited 28th Jul '16 11:14:20 PM by Overlord
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
- Overlord, I was in Joking Mode (plus I wanted to mention Animated!Conan's AWESOME theme).
- Suzuki. I assume it's this one? Only a shonen???
- Sigh... Rowan.
edited 29th Jul '16 1:00:07 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Abstaining on Rowan for the moment. By the way, the Ghostbusters cartoons didn't really have the same tone as the movies. They were often a lot more serious, especially XGB which regularly did straight-up horror, so them having one or two CM doesn't mean much.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to Rowan. Outside of an Azrael style piss poor Freudian Excuse I don't see a good case for him. That's because for me his actions do kinda land on the comedy side of things.
- He dosent have much scenes except unleashing ghosts, the possession scene, and dicking around with his powers in the movie so I feel he is not that fleshed out.
- There are some scenes that are supposed to be serious but come out played as laughs. For instance Rowan's compelling of the population to do what he wants was essentially freeze them in a dancing position. If it was more serious it would be him maybe forcibly turning them into ghosts or something.
- The ghostbusters cartoons are more horror emphasis as someone mentioned above so they can have a CM in it
Also note that Sarris from Galaxy Quest, through I never watched that movie seems to have a few more scenes establishing him as a CM or his actions are more laid out as such as his entry shows. I just feel that CM villains in comedic works such as the Galaxy Quest villain and even Ronan and Ajax were played much more serious than this one
edited 29th Jul '16 5:47:28 AM by xie323
Rowan. Obligatory to Paul Feig.
to Suzuki.
edited 29th Jul '16 5:23:33 AM by SatoshiBakura
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Incidentally, I was curious, so I checked; Ron Perlman DOES have a couple of CM credits under his belt.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Rowan. Ghostbusters is too comedic to have a CM.
...Okay, that was over the line, and I apologize. The movie wasn't THAT bad (Chris Hemsworth was legitimately entertaining, and I laughed at a joke or two: the "My Cat" scene specifically)
But seriously, ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]")
to Rowan, as much as I hate to do it.