During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Ragnorok
Happy Independence Day everyone!
I'll go keep on the previous examples there like Ghot Freak. For Stell, I don't think that's been discussed.
For my next, from GI Joe...the comic Infestation with a thanks to Ravok: Dr. Llund
Who is Llund?
This'll be quick. So, Llund? How's GI Joe meets Cthulhu sound? Llund is a worshiper of the elder gods, particularly Cthulhu and a mad sientist who has done experience to help to free her masters, along with a string of human sacrifice. Murdering several individuals to unleash her master, Llund declares she will free him and set him upon the entire world.
When Cobra refuses to hear her out on this, The Baroness being the one in charge at this point, Llund holds her own symposium and promptly sacrifices other people to summon the Elder One....unleashing the 'song' which painfully kills those who hear it as she willingly makes herself a host of the Old One to unleash it upon the world and unmake everything in a Lovecraftian apocalypse.
The Old One takes over as the villain, but is defeated and exorcised with even help from Cobra and Crystal Ball...ending as Llund is left dazed and confused....and at Crystal Ball's mercy who promises to torture her to death for information about the Old One...and he doesn't care what she knows at the time...noting that her pleas and screams are such a "sweet song"
Mitigating issues?
Nope. Llund is light on the personal body count...but when she willingly unleashes the old ones and gets possessed fully aware of what will happen and gleeful about it. In pure apocalyptic nightmares, this is unique, nobody else tries a pure on Lovecraft style apocalypse. Llund isn't an exciting villain but she hits every mark.
Conclusion?
and that's a winner and happy fourth!
Yeah to Llund; fitting for the most American of days.
The Draftsman of Doom
Yes to Llund. Happy Treason Day, Colonials.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Jul 4th 2021 at 2:16:04 PM
Feels good, don't it?
Goku Black
Llund
Btw wasn't infestation a company wide title. Does anyone count in the other comics.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
to Ragnorok and Dr. Llund.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Llund...I guess she'll go between Chimera and Mindbender? Lighty/Ravok, a little help please?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
for Gorilla Grodd, Dunne, Cadaver, the Morgans, Zs Skayr, Taiga, Ragnarok, and Llund.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
for Flannery.
I think that's right.
Goku Black
Here the final Charmed ep.
Who is the Source Of All Evil?
The shows main antagonist and the ruler of the underworld. He is an ancient, demonic essence which goes from host to host and takes them over. Behind the evils of the first three seasons as well as the others that follow.
This is what is pulled before meeting him in the flesh
- He organised the genocide of the Wizard race leaving only one sole survivor.
- Used the four horsemen of the Apocalypse to initiate the apocyppaw by having them kill tens of thousands. This is completely normal for him as he's apparently attempted it multiple times before. When they fail and are defeated, he kills them.
- Founded Kellman's demonic academy where innocents are hit with training from hell to turn them into monsters and demons.
- Founded Litvak' academy for the supernatural where rare supernatural creatures are captured and brainwashed into his servants.
- Trapped the demon Zankou self aware in And I Must Scream energy ball for centuries.
- Kills his minions at the drop of a hat.
Anyway, we meet him in the flesh in the season three finale. After her sisters are injured, Phoebe ends up in the Underworld and asks him to use Tempus to rewind time to save them. However he backstage them and Leo and Cole help them escape which leads to Prue Halliwell's death.
Returning in season four. The Source carefully uses his powers to try and corrupt the newest Haliwell Sister Paige and turn her to evil. By manipulating her by possessing her boyfriend and trying to get her to kill the abusive father of one of her charges at her social services job (Hea innocent. It's the child's mother who actually abused him). Their is a 24 window where a witch discovers her powers and has to choose good or evil. Whichever she picks will be her start. By having her kill him hell turn her into his pet. Still the charmed ones best him off.
He captured Piper and Mind Rapes her into a comma where he tried to drive her crazy by making her think she's lost her mind and is in an asylum and that all the charmed stuff is just delusions. He plans to have her give up her powers allowing him the book of shadows and with it ultimate power. Thankfully this too is stopped and Cole is able to nearly fatally wound him.
Licking His wounds. He talks with his second in command the Seer. They run every scenario with her but it always ends with his Vanquish. Out of desperation he breaks an ancient deal between the forces of good and evil and steals the hollow. The hollow is the most powerful magic in existence and acts as a void which is designed to absorb all magic when activated. The issue is that when this is done it will corrupt the host and turn them omicidal and want the consumption of everything. Even evil doesn't want this so he's broken the ultimate pact. He sends demons infuses with the hollow to steal the active powers of the chatted onees.
- The Source: The witch's powers are impressive.
- Seer: Nevertheless, do you think it's wise to have extracted them from the Hollow? There could be repercussions.
- The Source: Damn the repercussions, Seer! I won't stop until I have all three of their powers coursing through my veins. You understand me? (He unfreezes the pot.) I can't risk ging against them myself, until I do.
- Seer: No one wins while the Hollow runs free.
- The Source: I control the Hollow.
- Seer: For now. But the more magic it absorbs, the stronger it becomes. And the more you extract from it, the more it corrupts you until it consumes all things including you.
- The Source: Unless you wanna face eternity as a pile of ash, I suggest you stop questioning me and do as I say.
- The Source: One to go. (He walks over to the Seer.) What is it? What do you see? Tell me.
- Seer: I see nothing.
- The Source: What do you mean? Do I or do I not have the power to defeat the witches?
- Seer: You misunderstand. I see nothing. No magic, no life, no world. The Hollow will consume everything just as I warned.
- The Source: Then if there's no future I have no further need for you, do I, Seer?
- Seer: Please, I beg you. Find another way. Put the Hollow back where it belongs.
- /The Source: Not until I'm finished. Not until I've killed them all.
- /Seer: But that's madness. The Hollow won't let you stop there.
- The Source: Then so be it!
Willing to damn everything. With the hollow infused in himself. He'll eventually consume everything. The heavens, the earth and even the underworld. Nothing will exist anymore. The Seer contacts Cole to have him use some of the hollow to split its effect and weaken him. He's able to enough that the Charmd ones are able to finish him off with their ultimate spell.
However using the hollow meant Cole was connected to the source. Allowing the source to survive by taking him over. The two combine and he forces Cole to be sent deep within him. As part of his plan to create a powerup heir. He tricks Phoebe into getting married under a dark wedding. Which will lead to their child becoming tainted bit also the most powerful magic child and the heir to his kingdom. Cole's influence starts to shine in later episodes and starts to affect him as he becomes protective of Phoebe and even spares the sisters multiple times. He is vanquished again which separates him and cole..
Now free of Cole's influence. He reverts back to his evil douchebag ways. In his return in season eight he is resurccted by a possesor demon and plans to raise the charmed ones kid into evil and tries to kill the charmed ones. He is vanquisheed again.
Coming back in the comics. Now in his essence form. He has his minions murder most of the innocents that the charmed Ones saved. Using their blood to revive himslwf as a Golem (Lol. Even the demons in comic lampshade how many times he's come back now).
He then uses a spell to drive all of San Franciso insane to hint them down and kill them. Finally the charmed ones use a spell along with Excalibur to destroy him for good.
Mitigating factors?
Nope. He's the worst demon in existence. Willing to do something that will wipe out everything just to win The only time he shows a more protective side is because Cole has influenced him but when their not together. He reverts back to being a vile monster.
Heinous standard?
Willing to wipe out everything is just the cherry on top. Thanks to what he's behind. No other villain comes close to this level of torture, death, Mind Rape and such.
Conclusion?
Definite yeah.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
What is his agency like? What are demons like in Charmed?
Goku Black
Did I uh not explain that with Masselin
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
And that's a yes.
That stuff before we actually meet him in person: How much do we see?
Edited by ACW on Jul 4th 2021 at 2:49:47 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
My bad. Yeah to the Source.
The Moron
Easy yes to the Source
The Emperor of Evil!
Yeah to the Source
Goku Black
@ACW: We see all of it.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
The Draftsman of Doom
Yes to the Source.
Feels good, don't it?
RIP Toriyama
'Yes' to the Source, awesome job, mir!
And of course, big 'Yes' to Llund, what she lacks in personal villainy she destroys in scale. Trying to unleash Lovecraftian gods onto all of reality? That's...utterly unique for the franchise. Did great, Lighty! EDIT: And because I somehow missed them before, easy 'Yes' to the Morgans, too!
@miraculous: I've looked into a couple of other Infestation titles, don't personally think anyone hits from the ones I read but I didn't see them all.
@ACWA: Llund should go under Chimera and above Mindbender on the tree, yes. Which is about to be shaken up a bit because I have some cuts to propose now that Llund has been approved, namely? Xamot Paoli and Blacklight. Their write-ups for all to take note:
- Xamot Paoli is the more sadistically inclined, ambitious twin brother of the pragmatic Tomax. Committing a variety of war crimes and atrocities throughout his life alongside his brother, from slavery to exterminating hundreds of innocent people, Xamot makes a personal enemy with the G.I. Joe Chuckles when he tricks Chuckles into killing his own Love Interest for an ultimately pointless reason. After being scarred across his face by Chuckles for this, Xamot grows more unhinged and deranged, culminating in his concoction of a scheme to murder the Cobra High Command—starting with his own brother—which Xamot personally kicks off by massacring an entire room of defenseless Cobra agents. Though sharing many of his crimes with his brother, Xamot is the more proactive and crueler of the duo, and uses his relatively few appearances to make his own mark.
- Blacklight is a Cobra sniper with a cold love of killing. Carrying out a bevy of assassinations on Cobra's orders, Blacklight, when sent to capture a scientist for his superiors, tricks a group of college students into being his bullet shields and kills a security guard to accomplish his goal. Later killing a large group of G.I. Joes but failing at his larger mission, Blacklight is left out in the cold by the Baroness for this failure, and instantly begins planning his return to Cobra. Blacklight travels across the world, completing his trip by threatening and murdering several people for their transportation, and tries to assassinate a traitorous Cobra agent before slaughtering a security patrol and destroying an entire building full of people. Blacklight's final appearances sees him plunge two G.I. Joes and their charge into complete darkness, Blacklight happily planning to kill them off one by one in darkness while he just smiles about it.
Before Llund, these two passed barely, but with the verification of Llund who—despite being a random Cobra scientist—sacrifices people to willingly, knowingly unleash the Elder Gods onto reality to horrifically kill and mutate all of humanity...yeah, Xamot and Blacklight are easy cuts, I did a lot of thinking on them as they're my own and they just do not stack up.
Edited by Ravok on Jul 4th 2021 at 12:02:38 PM
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Blacklight sure, but Xamot doesn't count, even with his "exterminating hundreds of innocent people"?
Edited by ACW on Jul 4th 2021 at 3:01:10 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
to Llund and Source
Edited by The-Scarecrow on Jul 4th 2021 at 12:05:11 PM
Zs'Skayr, Taiga, Ragnarokkr, Llund and Source
Blacklight
Would like an answer to ACW's question before voting on Xamot.
The Draftsman of Doom
The writeup notes that Xamot shares many crimes with his brother.
~Tropers/Ravok: You never did get back to me on whether Howling Commandos was worth a look.
Feels good, don't it?
BTW, Ravok, for Vilgax's split, I don't know if you wanna include his crimes from the original series in the header paragraph or not.
Either way, Ordeaux, that's likely the next page.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts