Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
@43 As Sky had just said, I thought that the X-Men movies would get order of release, but if it's appropriate to have the Headmaster with Ajax instead, I'm totally for that though.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Mayor of Gramth, JG Jopling, Cornelius Sigan, Darkyloseid (damn this is either madness or genius, either way I want to read it), King of Worms, Jokerzard and the Headmaster.
ACW: To my recollection threats that want to flat out destroy Camelot are relatively few and far between. Most want to just kill the King, the court and anyone else who gets in there way. And even then, that's usually more along the lines of "kill a lot of people, take over and rule it my way, then kill anyone who disagrees." As opposed to Sigan who flat out wants to burn it to the ground.
He likewise posses no real justifications, at best you could argue he's bitter with the previous king for having him executed, but its implied he only did that cause he was evil to begin with.
Edited by MGD107 on May 19th 2023 at 2:26:57 AM
Caesar
Deadpool is a sub-series to X-Men, chronological order wouldn't come into play, the films would be grouped together.
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Goku Black
Plus Isnt the next film in the MCU. So will need to be moved when it comes out.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Rejected UAC Marine
to...dinosaur Darkseid and dinosaur Joker.
I love comic books sometimes.
Also a surprised but sorta small to Smash Ganondorf. He's clearly the worst of the Nintendo villains of the story, though personally I can't give a full-hearted vote just because the overall writing of Subspace Emissary tends to lean toward thin and vague. Plus he is shown to team up with everybody with no told reasons in World of Light
Edited by ImSpidey2 on May 19th 2023 at 5:48:48 AM
That being said, I have no source.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Since we got books and TV examples: Tony Hill and Carol Jordan
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I'm hearing about Deadpool 3 tying into the Fox movies even still as well, so it would technically count as both MCU and non-MCU in that case.
The tongue motif when I use it is to express a silly disposition for the record and not meant to be mean-spirited.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on May 19th 2023 at 2:49:29 AM
Astolfo my Man
Well, I am not really sure where we could put Deadpool if it becomes canon to the MCU even thought X-Men is a different continuity. It's a weird situation if you think about it.
I don't want to brag or anything but when it comes to being the worst, I'm always at the top!
Yes to the DC Dinos, the King of Worms, and the Headmaster
Have someone that i want to propose, after watching walkthrough of the game
What's the Work?
Breakdown is a FPS/fighting game released in 2004 on XBox and is kinda notable for good visuals and details and an interesting, but hard, combat mechanics. The game follows Derrick Cole, who wakes up in a sciense lab, with no memory of his past, right in the middle of alien invasion. As a mysterious young woman Alex (who is revealed to be from the future) saved him from being killed by the military, they fight their way through them and T'lan, said alien race, that was invading the planet.
Full walkthrough of the game can be watched here.
My candidate is the machine behind the invasion - Nexus.
Who is Nexus?
An alien computer AI, whose origins are unknown even to the scientists, who studied it for years, it's only is speculated that it was created by an alien race as a weapon and the one, who creates T'lan as it's personal army. Awakened and manipulating everybody to assist it in being capable of doing what it wants, Nexus started to awaken T'lan and sended them to slaughter any human they find, resulting in countless military and research personal getting killed.
As chaos ensures, it also sends it's personal "Avatar" Solus to lead it's army, as it acts through him, at first dismissing Cole as a threat, then kidnapping Alex to lure Cole to himself and distract him, as it destroyed the device, that was capable of intercepting and cancelling it's commands and killed the military team, that carried it, after which it sended a lot of rockets full of T'lan warriors across the world, and, as the future revealed, pretty much have them kill almost all of humanity and lay waste to the planet.
As Cole traveled back to the past to stop it, defeated Solus and traveled deep into "The Core" to Nexus, Nexus started to play mind games with him, having him repeat the nightmarish version of the training level from the start of the game and forcing him to watch his newly found friends getting killed and a lot of scientists dying, only for Cole to get his powers back, while Nexus tried to kill him in his mind and screamed curses at him. Getting himself free from mind control, Cole destroyed Nexus and saved the world.
Mitigating Qualities?
Nothing that get's explored enough to count. It's role as "the weapon of the aliens" is only speculated by the scientists and nothing in the game suggests that Nexus lacks agency.
While not rich in personality and not directly appearing until the second-to-last level and the final "boss fight", the whole "dream sequence" where it forces Cole to watch his friends getting repeatedly killed and, at one point, forced him to shoot them and watch them die again, and it throwing curses at Cole during the fight, kinda showcased enough personality, for me to consider to propose it here.
Heinousness?
Caused a lot of people to die and it's final goal is annihilating humanity. Plus, it torturing Cole in his mind and forcing him to watch his friends getting killed and then forcing him to kill them himself, adds a bit of sadism to it.
Conclusion?
What do you think?
Astolfo my Man
Nexus
I think it is profoundly overcomplicating it
Deadpool, one tree. Put it with X-men, anything else is speculative. Let's move on
"The Juice is Loose."
Yes to Headmaster and Nexus.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Mr.
To High Evolutionary, Headmaster, and King of Worms.
Not too sure about Brawl Ganondorf, however. The presence of Tabuu as a Spirit in Ultimate’s World of Light story mode suggests that the two events are connected. In the latter, the only time Ganondorf fights you is either in Puppet Fighter form, or when he’s brainwashed (and that fight against Ganon, but I still don’t know why they had you unlock Ganondorf before the Ganon fight, unlike with Giga Bowser, where defeating him unlocked playable Bowser). The rest of the time, he helps the rest fight Galleem and Dharkon. Plus, the end credits of Subspace Emissary show him standing triumphantly alongside the other fighters as allies. So ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to him.
Not the Eye
to Nexus
Edited by EmperorGeode on May 19th 2023 at 3:04:25 AM
Ultimate Moral Compass
Nexus
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sure to Nexus.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Got a keeper.
What's the work?
Dragon Blade is a 2015 action film starring Jackie Chan and John Cusack. Huo An is a Chinese captain marched with keeping the peace on the Silk Road. One day, a host of Romans arrive, having evidently fled the battle of Carrhae. Their leader, Lucius, bears with him a little boy: Publius, the chosen successor of the deceased Marcus Crassus.
But another general is on the way, and he intends to finish what he's begun. Enter Tiberius.
Who is Tiberius?
A bloodthirsty and wicked Roman general, the elder son of Crassus whose father saw his unsuitability to be heir as Triumvir and intended to name the child Publius as heir instead. Tiberius betrayed his father and saw his legion destroyed ar Carrhae, murdering Crassus, blinded his little brother and has betrayed the peace treaty with the Parthians without care of any war that begins.
hounding his brother to kill him and finish what he began, Tiberius begins to sack areas along the Silk Road, murdering civilians in search of the renegade Lucius who befriends Huo An and founds a region of cooperation and peace with him. Tiberius sways a man to turn traitor and results in the sacking and slaughter of numerous civilians, including Huo An's kind wife when she trie to defend the orphans in her care.
Lucius is captured and betrayed to Tiberius who forces the suicide of Publius and his teacher. Lucius is tortured brutally with his eyes torn out, to the point Huo An has to mercy kill him.
Huo An leads his forces to Tiberius, who prepares to slaughter them when the tide turns and the Parthians arrive, having been reached by Lucius's messengers and come to finish Tiberius. One of his generals begs Tiberius to surrender and Tiberius kills him, before facing Huo An. Huo An ultimately overcomes the wicked general and kills him, before theye stablish a new city with the Romans as a sign of cooperation and brotherhood in the name of those they lost.
Mitigating issues?
Um, no. Tiberius is a bloodthirsty, sadistic, power hungry monster with countless lives lost. He's stopping at nothing to murder a child, having killed his own father. He's ambitious and selfish, without a hint of goodness to him.
Conclusion?
Easy keeper.
Astolfo my Man
Tiberius
to Tiberius and Nexus
Edited by G-Editor on May 19th 2023 at 12:49:04 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sure to Tiberius. First for Adrien Brody?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Not the Eye
Sure to Tiberius.
Goku Black
Hey I remember this film
Tiberius
Think the film Is based on a old rumour that their was a roman colony in China.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
And the one I'm not sure of, as my esteemed colleague and I disagree on this:
What's the work?
The Guyver is a rather...interesting action film,adapting a manga/anime to Americanize it. Long ago, aliens made humanity. They also made the Zoanoids, transforming mutants...and the most powerful of them was Zoalord. After millennia, the Zoalord has awakened from slumber and formed a powerful corporation known as CHRONOS. Inhuman experiments abound, the Zoalord, Fulton Balcus, seeks the return of the Guyver, an ancient alien armor that fidns its way into the hands of our hero, Sean...
Now let's discuss Balcus's brutal dragon: Lisker.
Who is Lisker?
A towering bald man in a trenchcoat, Lisker is an enforcer, assassin and abductor who keeps the horrific experiments of the Zoanoids going. When Professor Segawa, a Zoanoid himself, flees the corporation with the Guyver, Lisker and his crew hunt him down and upon a confrontation, Lisker savagely beats, tortures and painfully kills Segawa, sneering only "What a waste of a good brain!" Segawa manages to switch out the Guyver with a toaster, meaning Lisker is punished severely by Balcus upon return and told to find Segawa's daughter, Mitsy who has the Guyver.
Lisker and crew murder Mitsy's housekeeper (rather horribly, too) and kidnap Mitsy, who escapes thanks to Sean and their Friend on the Force Max. Pursued by Lisker and crew, Lisker ends up engaging Sean who is now the Guyver's host. Upon realizing that, Lisker ends up viciously beating Sean down when he realizes the weakness of the Guyver and kills Sean Who later regrows from the Guyver, delivering Max and Mitsy to Balcus for experimentation...and oh yeah, there's a lot of people in the tanks, who are warped inhumanly.
when Sean returns, he defeats Lisker despite Lisker's claims of "I killed you once and I'll kill you again!" Sean then proceeds to agonizingly pry open Lisker's skull and drops his corpse before engaging Balcus.
Mitigating issues?
I think he hits the standard, being a pretty brutal killer, and hands over people for the experiments. Lisker does the legwork while Balcus chills in the office. The only thing to really discuss is Lisker's relationship with his female minion/girlfriend.
Now, he tends to treat her with detatchment while she drapes herself on him, mentioning sure they can go to Brazil, sure he'll take her shopping (played for laughs when he comments that hunting down the Guyver is "shopping" like he promised whereupon she angrily asks "what about Brazil?!") The only sign he might care about her is when Sean cuts her down and Lisker angrily snaps "you killed my woman!" as he's beating Sean down...Scraggle and I disagree but I read the tone as less grief and more vague irritation, since Lisker doesn't demonstrte one iota of visible grief. After killing Sean, his response is "The Guyver? HAH! Nothing to it!" And when Sean is back, Lisker is just affronted a victim came back from death. It might be a weakness with the script, but he never mentions his girlfriend again, and he didn't seem to care much about her when she was alive.
Really, it turns on that, and I'd value discussion, because Lisker is a solid example otherwise.
Conclusion?
What say we?
Not the Eye
Lean to Lisker
Yes to Four Eyes.
Edited by SkyCat32 on May 19th 2023 at 5:21:03 AM
Your friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.