Usage of AI-generated images for trope pages

A couple of AI-generated images were suggested in this Image Pickin' thread for Place of Power, and concerns were raised about the nebulous legality of such images. I think this deserves a conversation of its own. Should there be a clear stance as to whether or not AI-generated images are allowed to be used on this wiki? If so, what stance should we take?

Edited by badtothebaritone on Dec 23rd 2022 at 1:07:41 PM

I don't feel like AI-generated images should be used for trope pages. Not only are they hard to get permission for, but they typically aren't the best-quality images to be using for a trope.

I'm going with a hard 'No' unless its a page about AI art

I am against this idea. There's too much of a legal grey area, for one.

I'd view it as about the same as troper-made images. Usually not always the ideal solution, but could work sometimes.

Edited by plakythebirb on Dec 23rd 2022 at 2:45:24 PM

Agreed. Only exception I can think of is maybe if we made a page about AI art.

I'd like to note that there is a LOT of misinformation on how exactly machine learning models work, so please be careful to not repeat any in this thread, as policy should be informed by facts. This infographic has been one of the best I've seen on explaining exactly how programs like these work without being overly techy.

think that's a wee bit harsh. You could say the same about images made in Photoshop, that they are a "spit to the face" to artists who do oil paintings. Besides, creating good quality AI-generated images is not that simple. If you just try it out, most likely you'll end up with something crappy. To get something useful, you need to do a lot of fine-tuning and trial-and-error, and yes, it requires its own kind of talent and experience to do right.

I'm with . If there are no legal concerns (that depends on the software you use I guess) and it's good enough quality, it should be treated as other troper-made images: use it if we cannot find a decent one from a work.

Edited by petersohn on Dec 23rd 2022 at 9:20:53 PM

Personally I'm in the camp that AI-generated images should be avoided due to the myriad of legal and ethical issues involved with them.

Ethical could kind of be fixed if it only takes from artists who agreed to it, but even then, that might not sit well with people, and heck, is there even a model which allows a clean start?

Legality, however, is a huge reason as to why not to use AI images.

Okay, Karxida, this is starting to sound like a Single-Issue Wonk for you. I understand you disagreeing, but you don't need to be rude to everyone about it.

I was already against using pics that aren't from works in general, so this is obviously a big for me. Even unsourced photos I'm not 100% on board with, but there are exceptions.

Look, as an artist myself, I'm unsure how ethical AI art is at this point. Like I much rather not spend my day figuring out the ethics and such.

Though, it's probably for the best to not use AI art for pages outside of those related to AI art.

Edited by Cutegirl920fire on Dec 23rd 2022 at 12:30:06 PM

((Edit/self-thump, since I felt what I originally posted was way too rambly.))

((Rewriting...)

Personally, on the subject of "Could using AI art get us in trouble legally", I feel like it may be a bit too recent to decide on that, given that it's currently a hot talking point and that it'll take a bit for any actual legal rulings to be made/overturned/whatever.

Edited by plakythebirb on Dec 23rd 2022 at 3:36:08 PM

Absolutely not, for the reasons already said.

Big. Fat. Nope.

Count me in on a "nope" to AI images. It's better to rely on images from actual works, and the ethical issues that comes from the way these programs are trained is just too much baggage to deal with.

Besides, they can't do hands.

Edited by chasemaddigan on Dec 23rd 2022 at 4:31:54 AM

It's okay, artists IRL can't do hands, either :P

I agree that we should keep AI art off, I don't have any real hatred towards the concept (though I can see why artists would hate it) but I do agree that the copyright issues are too nebulous to deal with. Additionally, from an illustrative standpoint, I find it very unlikely for AI art to actually properly illustrate a specific trope.

I'm in for a ban on AI art.

We have copyright concerns, quality concerns, artistic concerns... it's best to just wash our hands of it.

One possible idea I just had could be to forbid for a year or so, and then see what the legal status of them is then. It's kind of pushing the issue away for our future selves to deal with, but with the legal status of generative art being a hot topic right now, it could be for the best to wait until emotions and law-makers have calmed down.

Also, while I don't want to bring identity stuff into the mix, I am an artist who also really likes generative art.

No, I'm not interested in a ban on AI art (and personally feel the general discussion on the concept about 50 years delayed).

The fact that we would generally prefer images to be from works, allowing visitors to click on the image to check out the work, means that we are unlikely to use specifically created art, whether that art was made by brush, digitally generated, or machine-learning assistance.

We also don't like to use chatboxes or text generators for page quotes. We don't need to ban them because they're already not as useful as finding stuff from existing works.

This is pretty much my same opinion.

I don't think that's an apt comparison because, unlike pics, all quotes must come from somewhere. Weird standard, allowing troper-made pics but not troper-made quotes, but it's probably because the barrier of entry is much lower when it comes to writing.

Edited by FernandoLemon on Dec 23rd 2022 at 7:07:28 AM

FWIW, I also know someone personally who is an artist and they basically told me what Karxrida said about stolen art.

It'll take quite a bit to collect a decent amount of artists willing to have their styles copied. And even then, every artist on here that I know (including me) has majorly different art styles than each other, so I don't know how the AI would deal with that.

In total, even if we take an ethical approach which is a bit hard, there's still the legality problem.

So yeah, to AI. And considering how most people here want images from actual works, or at least related to works, it would have to be trained on fanart to make art of works, meaning that any artist who agrees to have their work used would have to draw MANY characters or items that they know next-to-nothing about just so the AI can generate art of it.

Way too much work for something that may not even work.