Complete Monster Cleanup

Grr...do some need to be re-added?

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts

Cut the Tokyo Ghoul candidates

Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?

Cut those two

REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her

Cut the Tokyo ghoul duo

Cut the Tokyo Ghoul duo

Cut the Tokyo Ghoul duo

Hmm. If the Brainiacs are working together to conquer the multiverse and each of them is as bad as the others, it might be worthwhile proposing them as a team since IIRC the limit on team size was done away with a while back.

Edited by Arawn999 on Feb 17th 2024 at 9:10:30 AM

Personally saying wait until we see if the DLC stuff is happening cuz they might clarify the Brainiacs are a Hive Mind anyway.

As for Torquemada, nah that's not redeeming, the story with the parents thing was published like 17 years after the initial run and he only expresses admiration for his family because of their "holy relics" as alien exterminators like himself.

Tonight I dine on monkey soup.

Even if we technically lifted the limit, if there are 13 of them I don't see how that violates our "no groups" rule

Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?

@Ravok Ah so it's more the case he admired their aggressive racism rather than actual familial care?

Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.

OK... but if there's a "no groups" rule then what was the purpose of the discussion on doing away with team membership limits? Never mind, not the place for it. I'll just pose the question on the Policy thread.

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Cut Furuta

Edited by Arawn999 on Feb 17th 2024 at 9:13:46 AM

Cut the Tokyo Ghoul duo.

• Crisis Core: Professor Hollander was the chief of Project G, creating both Angeal and Genesis, yet was passed over for promotion in favour of Hojo and his Project S, resulting in Hollander being stuck in a dead-end job. Resenting the Shinra Electric Company, Hollander would manipulate and collaborate with an adult Genesis to take revenge; Genesis defected with an army of SOLDIER operatives whom Hollander would turn into Genesis Copies: slaves to Genesis' will suffering Loss of Identity instigating the Genesis War, which led to much death and destruction, with Hollander having no regard for civilians. Falsely promising to cure Genesis and his Copies' Degradation, an impatient Genesis would eventually infect Hollander with his cells and only then did Hollander try in earnest to find a cure—almost harvesting a comatose Cloud Strife to do so.

Going to be real hear

His rapsheet isn’t that impressive

He is basically coming off as a Hojo Lite

The Turning people into Genesis clone? Hojo literally does the exact same thing by turning people into Sephiroth clones, in fact he experimented on other people to turn them into monsters too

Experimenting on a woman and her unborn child? Hojo did the same thing, TO HIS OWN WIFE AND CHILD

Being indirectly responsible for Sephiroth’s fall to the dark side?

Hojo is directly responsible and actively helps him

I know it was argued that Hojo had more resources but let’s be real resources don’t mean a darn thing if another guy dies they sane cyimes as you but worse and you having nothing to add to the heinous standard

Hollander should be cut

Edited by YorkobeShounen on Feb 18th 2024 at 6:15:41 AM

Okay, just popping in to clear up that I went back to the post advocating to remove all of Echidna's examples and it doesn't look like any need to be re-added. The only one I could see being vouched for within a few day period was Vanitas, but that was one that I specifically addressed as plagiarized so it needed cut anyway. Basically, I'm pretty sure we were good to do a complete purge there.

That being said, regardless of the reason we cut someone's candidates? If we ever have to do a mass purge like that again, regardless of the reason, if someone is vouched for then they're vouched for. Individuals don't get to just go on a cutting spree because they disagree with examples staying up regardless of if they're vouched for. I hope this never has to happen again but if it does, no one makes unilateral moves.

Thought on Hollander?

Sorry, should have included this in the post - I didn't miss it, I just don't know Final Fantasy, and I don't tend to comment on works I don't know much about. I was going to refer to the original EP to see if I could form an opinion, but the EP was from G so I wasn't personally inclined to argue for or against it.

It’s ok I get it

The issue with the old EP is it’s only argument for Hollander not gaining to Hojo is “less resources” which doesn’t matter as he has nothing niche and is a true Hojo lite in every sense of the word

Edited by YorkobeShounen on Feb 18th 2024 at 7:39:13 AM

Okay, here's the thing. When it was decided to remove all of this user's examples, the discussions made me feel like should actually cut them all out. I wasn't trying to "decide what should happen", it just seemed to me that due to massive plagiarism, the examples needed to be cut. I apologize for not consulting the thread first, but it seemed to me that this was unnecessary and should just be removed. I reviewed the discussions and missed that there were other problems, as well as about the pledge. Okay, missed that, my mistake, but nevertheless I deleted them not because “I didn’t agree with the examples that don’t go to bed, regardless of whether they vouch for them,” but simply because it seemed to me that needed them all cut and that the branch simply forgot about it.

With all due respect, Star, but can you please not interpret my behavior as if I'm some kind of jerkass trying to impose my views, please? If I had known then that it was decided to leave the examples for now and not delete them, I would not have deleted them. Plus, as I already said, I didn’t understand then what needed to be discussed with the thread about this. I'm tired of how people tend to immediately assume other people are dishonest if they do something wrong. You and Ravok explained what was going on, I understood and next time I will discuss it with the thread. There is no need for judgment here, especially when the issue is my ignorance and not what I want to do. Now that I know how to deal with such cases, this will not happen again on my part, but please, do not immediately judge people if they do something wrong.

Ravok:Thank you so much for the explanation, and thank you so much for doing it without any judgment. Now I understand everything completely. Although 3 candidates for the Voice also seemed to be proven to be plagiarism, so it turns out 5 times. But yes, you are right and I apologize again. I wasn't trying to force anything on anyone or disagree, it just seemed like they needed to be cut and that was it and that this discussion wasn't necessary. Thanks again for the explanation.

Cut out the Tokyo Ghoul villains.

Speaking of the Voice villains. Here, according to Star, all 3 candidates were also borrowed. Should they be cut or is it better to leave them? I'm asking to make sure that there won't be any "one-sided" conclusions or problems with this. Once again, I apologize.

Edited by Ghal-Sur on Feb 18th 2024 at 8:32:55 AM

I specifically didn't name you because I wasn't speaking to you. I was speaking to everyone. People got ridiculously cut-happy when this problem first came up, the problem continued even after it was over, and I wanted to head it off at the pass. I even specifically said that ultimately, purging all of them with no exceptions was the right call, but there were things being thrown around about what "needs" to happen regardless of what we've been told to do in this situation when that's not how it works and it needed cleared up. I apologize if it came off like I was calling you a "jerkass trying to impose my views" but I never called you that.

And while I'm at it - I've been discussing the Tokyo Ghoul situation with people in PMs to try to understand it better and can safely say they can all be cut.

Edit: Yes, all three Voice candidates can be cut outright. I remember that was some of the more blatant plagiarism.

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Feb 18th 2024 at 11:33:59 AM

Cut the TG duo

Ghal, calm down, Star didn’t even name you in his explanation.

Edited by therealjackieboy on Feb 18th 2024 at 8:45:02 AM

"No running in the halls!"

I can do a new EP for Hollander, if necessary. The old EP wasn't... it had issues, so I think it'll be best for me to lay all the cards out on the table; I was the one that vouched for Hollander, so it's my responsibility. Also, I should note, Hollander turns way more people into Genesis Copies than the amount Hojo got up to. Like, hundreds at least. A small army. I think Hojo made dozens of Sephiroth Copies? Not to mention Hollander effectively let Genesis wage war killing and endangering so many. But I'll lay it all out when I do the EP - it might be after I beat Rebirth, but I'll get to him.

Edited by PolarPhantom on Feb 18th 2024 at 9:12:46 AM

Ok Polar

Will trust you on this

I am also going to check out Crisis Core again myself

I am also going to play Rebirth but don’t expect to hear much from me because I am going to be dodging spoilers until I beat the game

With the info mentioned by Polar, I'd say we cut Hollander for now out of principle and await his reproposal before we make further judgements on his status.

On an unrelated note, with our loosening of the baseline for animated films, I feel it's a good time to give a rewrite to DOR-15's Resolved Items entry.

• Meet the Robinsons: DOR-15 (Fails the baseline heinous standard, especially when compared to similar works)

My issue with the current entry is that it doesn't do a good enough job explaining the reason why DOR-15 can't count as a Complete Monster, namely the fact that, like Turbo, the crimes that would in theory allow her to cross the baseline rely on Fridge Horror for them to be bad enough and her other actions aren't enough to breach the baseline either. I therefore propose the current entry be changed to something like this:

• Meet the Robinsons: DOR-15 (Her enslavement of humanity is too generic in execution and reliant on Fridge Horror for it to be bad enough, causing her to fail the baseline)

If anybody has any feedback for the proposed rewrite, then be my guest!

Edited by jlvs200s on Feb 18th 2024 at 6:29:14 PM

"Stand Proud, Sukuna, you are strong" | He/Him

Seems good. I agree with the change!

I won't lie, I was expecting Hollander to get challenged for a long time and was prepared to do a new EP for him. Heck, I expect Lazard to have similar issues on MB.

Can respect the fact you are prepared