Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Not voting keep on him but mind elaborating on his preventing qualities?
Edited by BillyPeepers92 on Jun 28th 2023 at 5:53:33 AM
Classy, Refined, Unstable
I remember Apocalypse being discussed when we were cutting two other guys, let me try and find the discussion.
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
RIP Toriyama
Yeah, while I'm open to hearing out the possible cut, I'd like more specifics on what instances, comics and scenarios have him showcasing these qualities. And as Wet said, I recall him being brought up fairly recently as well, so I'd want something to contrast that result.
Edited by Ravok on Jun 28th 2023 at 6:06:13 AM
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Here's when Power brought him up. There's the discussions for Sabretooth and Deviot being cut so there's a few point of conversations going.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Alright now a bit ago I got Khaled Al-Asad cut due to heinous concerns and him being outweighed by a villain of similar resources called Waraabe (who's listed).
Now reading Waraabe's writeup, it says he engages in human trafficking, ethnic cleansings and feeding people to hyenas. The issue? Lack of oomph, especially considering the series he comes from.
The ethnic cleansings? In the level "Back On The Grid" you see some of Waraabes troop murder some villagers, mostly by gun shots apart from a nasty incident of someone almost being burnt alive. The village the level is set in has some structural damage but you don't see any bodies or the like there.
The hyena stuff? Waraabe's troops in the level use them as attack dogs but I don't recall any people being fed to them. Waraabe himself as a character is seen only once and that's him being terrified about Price almost gassing him and executing him.
Now the gas attacks that Makarov unleash on Europe... here's the issue, Waraabe just aids them with the smuggling of them. The chemical weapons themselves are made and exported by someone else entirely names Volk who's Makarovs personal bomb chemist.
The human trafficking and terrorism are literally just one screen notes you see on his dossier so despite our relaxations on Offscreen Villainy, its not really useful in a franchise that thrives on War Is Hell and doesn't shy away from it's crimes. And as far as i can see you don't see or hear about other villages being ravaged by Waraabes forces.
Now admittedly for the villains in the series Waraabe is the lowest tier but he's still in cohorts with the most powerful terrorist on the planet and his big crime is shared by someone else (Volk) who's responsible for making the bioweapons and from what i can tell, personally oversaw the delivery of them in Paris before hiding while it was detonated.
Personality wise we don't even get much from Waraabe as his only talking scene is Price interrogating him, him caving in and saying no before being shot.
I'm not asking for a direct cut here but I'd like some discussion if anyones got any input here folks!
Didn't expect to write this amount for a minor villain in Call Of Duty game lmao.
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Ehhh, I might be mostly okay for him still, all things considered. He's pretty minor, but nasty in how he helps with debatably worse than al-Asad
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
Keep Wara.
IPP Wick Check created.
Keep Waraabe
For now I’m find keeping Apocalypse until another person weighs in on those “militating factors”
Edited by G-Editor on Jun 28th 2023 at 11:17:39 PM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Hmm, I need more info on Apocalypse, but if it's multiple writers, he may need to be cut.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The wifi here sucks
Leaning keep on Waraabe he still has a major hand in the gassing even if other characters helped
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
I'll say keep Warabe
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
The issue being is this for Apoc is pretty new. Like, it seems to be his new reality, but was only introduced in recent years
The wifi here sucks
Honestly if we determine that Apocalypse still counts we may need to put him on the resolved items list, I feel like we've discussed him a lot in the last year or so.
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Not the Eye
Keep Waarane
Edited by EmperorGeode on Jun 29th 2023 at 12:00:22 PM
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Fair enough about Waraabe, him being responsible for the smuggling but not the one behind the creation (volk), and no really showcasing a personality apart from his one scene where Price interrogates him was what made me leary.
Has Apocalypse come up that much? Last time I remember was when we were cutting Deviot and Sabretooth.
Edited by WetFlannels on Jun 29th 2023 at 8:00:56 PM
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.Reading those qualities that Power mentioned awhile ago it does seem like Apocalypse willingly abandoned his redeeming qualities. Are there other redeeming qualities that haven't been mentioned yet?
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
Not the Eye
I think Fury means his love for his family and Heel–Face Turn in a Krakoan Age, which as far as I know stuck.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
If we keep Apocalypse, we're gonna have to keep a very close eye on him and see what happens later on (like Sabretooth).
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Not the Eye
Something I would like clarified. What exacly makes Apocalypse and Sabretooth different? Both have newly introduced Reddeming qualities that are consistently shown by multiple writers.
I know absolutely nothing about comics and their reliance on Depending on the Writer, so I'm going try and be as objective a third party as I can. If there are new redeeming qualities brought up about a character in the same canon, but even written by another author, they should be considered valid. If these changes are affecting the same canon version as the one currently listed, then they should apply and comics seem to be the only medium where we have this issue.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
The wifi here sucks
Imo if what fury is saying is accurate I'm leaning cut for Apocalypse though I would like some elaboration on what specific comics have shown these redeeming qualities.
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Goku Black
I don't mind an ep on Volk Tbh.
But I'd say warrabe is good too.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Classy, Refined, Unstable
From what I recall from Volk, he's just the chemist and made the bio bombs, his personality is even less than Waraabe's since his mission is just you chasing him and the American's capturing him and interrogating him offscreen to give up Makarov's plans.
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Barb / Temporary Kylo
The thing I saw come up last time was that this was more recent then the stuff with Sabretooth. So perhaps we just wait to see if this gets more consistency in the future?
The First man
I think we can bring up Apocalypse again as a dispute. Before he was a flat character with not much depth now he’s had Jonathan Hickman, Tini Howard and Al Ewing give him examples of Even Evil Has Standards, Even Evil Has Loved Ones, Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds and A Lighter Shade of Black. He might be eligible for being cut