Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
The Moron
I did some digging - don't have time to link, but as far as I can tell, Jim's been approved since the show was first given a once over in 2013, including borrowing most of its current writeup from the original "unapproved" one. No wonder the entry looks the way it does, it's old as shit ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Dec 12th 2022 at 9:50:25 AM
Classy, Refined, Unstable
So should we wait and see with Jim for when Ordeaux gets back with feedback?
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Professor Gigachad
Yeah and there is no discussion about his victim count, only about him being very brutal. If he doesn't have at least a good victim count, he will probably be cut. I will check the episode out. Assuming I can find it.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
The Moron
That's where I'm inclined to fall - I can see him keeping if we get enough victims from him and don't want to cut him only to have to put him back up when everything is uncertain right now, especially since Ordeaux's already being a G and checking it out for us.
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Dec 12th 2022 at 9:51:34 AM
That's what I'd say, sounds pretty unvetted
If he does keep I'd also say rewrite the entry as you see fit to match whatever emphasis puts him up.
Edited by 43110 on Dec 12th 2022 at 9:52:29 AM
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Apologies if this is a double post but the last few CSI candidates.
- Henry Darius: Serial/Spree Killer with 20 kills, a majority college students.
- Smiley: Goes on a mass killing spree across the city on his own. Decent count.
- Sqweegel: Triple digit Serial Rapist and Serial Killer
I say we're good with these 3?
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Professor Gigachad
I will be back once I have seen the episode but his prospects are grim right now.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
@ Wet, Yee Gods, yes to all!
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Oh shit I forgot about Python who loves to cause anarchy, bit of torture and murder, personal foe with sadistic games.
We're good here.
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Okay, since we're doing cleanup might as well look over the Ultraman one since I've almost watched the entire series.
The only one I have an issue with is Peginera, not the fact that it's not a bastard, it is, but something that was discussed earlier with someone else.
When I asked if Yapool counted for a CM post I was told no because it's a being made from the combined consciousness of an alien race even though it's treated as an individual, A hivemind.
Peginera is also a hivemind of a collective consciousness of a bunch of beings. So to me it was kind weird he was allow. maybe the difference was that it was a smallest scale, but I don't know, what do you guys think? Should Peginera be cut?
Edited by Godzillarich on Dec 12th 2022 at 7:00:05 AM
The Moron
So far, it looks like the only major issues on that page at the moment are as follows:
- CSI is largely okay, except we may be cutting Jenny.
- Miami's keepers are fine, and Bob is getting a lovely rewrite from Wet.
- NY: Discussion on if Colin needs cut, and so far it's looking like it.
- Cold Case: Roger is on the chopping block at the moment, we're waiting for more from Jim.
- Without a Trace: Emil's probably being cut and the conman's getting another Wet rewrite.
- CSI: Trilogy: Jimmy was brought up as a cut but seems to be keeping at the moment.
Did I miss anything?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Nah you're gucci there STAR. Not that many cuts tbh with a standard like this. Just gotta wait for Ordeaux's feedback.
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Professor Gigachad
Still watching the episode but on think I am wondering. I don't think we ever decided what to do with Law & Order's heinous standard. Since if we are going the route of judging everything together there is I few that might need to be cut.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
The Moron
Let's wait for this discussion to run its course and then we can do a deep dive of that page - I'm happy to contribute to that one since one of my own keepers is on there
Professor Gigachad
Taking another look at the similar Bellisarioverse might also be a good idea. But yeah we should wait for this to finish.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Classy, Refined, Unstable
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
x6
Here's Pegiras' EP. Is it a Worm That Walks?
Edited by WetFlannels on Dec 12th 2022 at 3:08:24 PM
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
The Moron
Not to initiate a new discussion, but I also know that the Bellsario stuff is far more disconnected from each other than CSI or L&O is, so that one I'd be far more willing to take each work as its own rather than old them against each other.
Reading it actually makes sense, He is a worm that walks but it seems to be that he turn himself into that. Thanks for the post it seems to clear some things up for me even if it's still a bit vague on how exactly he works.
This seems to answer my grievances, the Ultra page seems fine then.
Edited by Godzillarich on Dec 12th 2022 at 7:12:24 AM
Cheers on the Ultra solution and agreed with Star on CSI, this is a good discussion and worth seeing out before getting to those two.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Giving a skim on the next 2 pages we wanna have a relook in. I'd say we're mostly good for JAG but Law and Order? Now that'll be an interesting discussion.
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
I figured we're pretty solid on the Law & Order episodes since it was likely very hard for all those to be put up to begin with because of how specific the heinous standard is.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Got a rewrite of mine I wanna do, Memnon.
Old
- First film: Memnon is the ruthless king of an invading horde of warriors from the east. Kidnapping the sorceress Cassandra when she was young, Memnon develops an unhealthy obsession with her, only refraining from making a move to her because it would take her foreseeing abilities away. Using Cassandra's ability, Memnon leads a brutal campaign across numerous settlements, burning them and slaughtering all within them, even if they surrendered. When Mathayus attempts to assassinate Cassandra, Memnon has his men hold him down while he slits Mathayus's brother's throat and leaves Mathayus to be Eaten Alive by killer ants. When Mathayus escapes with Cassandra from Memnon's keep, Memnon has his top enforcer Thorak use a poisoned arrow to in an attempt to painfully kill Mathayus and bring Cassandra back to him. Memnon then plans to send a raiding party to wipe out the remaining members of the tribes that hadn't submitted to his rule and claim Cassandra for himself.
New
- The Scorpion King: Memnon is the king of an invading horde of warriors from the east who kidnapped the sorceress Cassandra to use her foreseeing ability to enact a brutal campaign across the land. Leaving countless settlements in flames, Memnon would have all within slaughtered, even if they surrendered. Developing an unhealthy obsession with Cassandra, Memnon intends to take her for himself when his acts of conquest are complete. When Mathayus attempts to assasinate him, Memnon forces him to watch as he slit's Mathayus' brother throat and leaves him to be devoured by killer ants. With Mathayus escaping with Cassandra, Memnon intends on having his armies wipe out the remaining tribes to claim Cassandra for himself and impose the "order" he craves.
Thoughts?
Oh and if you're wondering about the film's candidates:
- Memnon - Mass death of multiple settlements and plans to rape Cassandra
- Sargon - Brutal regime with people killed for petty reasons and has a dash of personal cruelty.
- Talus - Few raids and has his own soldiers murdered by the undead horde he summons.
- Nebserek - Reaps souls in agony with his blade
- Magus - Omnicidal Maniac
So I say we're good here.
Edited by WetFlannels on Dec 12th 2022 at 4:21:32 PM
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Professor Gigachad
Alright, so I just finished the episode with Jim Larkin. Yeah unfortunately all of our fears were completely accurate. Other than Eve and one extra person there are some vague suggestions he might have had more victims but there is nothing concrete with an exact victim count. In the present he is also a frail old man barely able to even get up and spend most of his time watching TV and drinking, which also suggests he may not have been active very much.
Pretty awful guy especially since one of his victims is 15 but especially compared to Josh Freely he just doesn't have enough. Him passing the baseline would already be questionable and while the heinous standard of Cold Case isn't the highest he just isn't too far up on the top to count especially since he doesn't have much of a niche to occupy, and there mere fact that Josh Freely exists who is like 4x worse than him in every way.
I am advocating a cut posthaste.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Gotta love Jaws!
Cut the Creature Feature protag.
The Qhored rewrite looks good.
"For a second there, I mistook ya for a threat... but you're just a dirty little man!"
All I've found is that he's a nasty serial rapist and very gross.
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.