The Web Original namespace -- is it necessary?

Maybe we should put all those exceptional works into a sandbox alike Sandbox.AppNamespace to see where the argument is going later.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup

I'm cool with that.

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

I don't like the idea of moving pages out of WebOriginal/ to a less specific namespace.

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On a related note, I've just launched a WebOriginal/ page for that online quiz I mentioned earlier.

[1] I totally agree, I think the problem is mostly misuse. I'm totally open for a new namespace, I just think putting all the contents in Literature/ seems a bit exaggerated.

[2] I don't think that post is saying The Backrooms is being split, it's simply saying some independent works of that universe will receive their own pages, not that the original more general page will be deleted.

Edited by good-morning on Aug 14th 2022 at 11:43:06 AM

oh hey how are you doing?

It's not going to be deleted; the page will be focusing on the original creepypasta only (And any other canon info, which I think it's decided by a wiki's community or something?). So it will get the same treatment as any other creepypasta. (Moving to Literature/, moving to WebFiction/, or staying on WebOriginal/, depending on what we choose to do.)

Edited by FernandoLemon on Aug 14th 2022 at 12:13:55 PM

I'd like to apologize for all this.

I dropped out of this conversation over the weekend to avoid engaging in it negatively (feeling better now) and thought of another example of community-driven storytelling - LetsPlay.Twitch Plays Pokemon. LetsPlay/ is being retired, but it won't fit in WebVideo/ - the audience plays the game in real-time rather than simply watching someone else, and the vast majority of tropable narrative content was not only not part of the base game but occurred outside of Twitch. Something like WebFiction/ or InteractiveFiction/ would be the least-awkward place to put it, and the similarities to Slenderman or MS Paint Adventures are obvious.

Given how the Backrooms has been spreading and works around it interact with each other, it seems like it would be worth comparing it Franchise.The Slender Man Mythos being the central location for all associated works (which, for some reason, is a Franchise/ page despite the works being legally unaffiliated).

The Revolution Will Not Be Tropeable

I'm honestly unsure that Twitch Plays is really tropeworthy. The creative content that spawned from the actual gameplay were memes and fan interpretation, which isn't even a mixed media thing since the actual work doesn't include the tropes.

(Mixed Media would be for works where the actual work is spread out across mediums, not as various adaptations but as part of the same original product. It wouldn't be for a situation where people transformed the original work into something creative.)

Oh, and the Franchise/ thing is... complicated.

Edited by WarJay77 on Aug 16th 2022 at 6:06:09 AM

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Twitch Plays is a community let's play to me so it probably under the same tropability issues.

Edited by MacronNotes on Aug 16th 2022 at 7:21:52 AM

Macron's notes

Twitch Plays Pokemon is certainly tropeworthy, my issue is that there are just so many of them that don't quite stand out, I feel like these pages could be all collapsed into a single Recap/. Maybe it needs own thread, also to evaluate what's being troped.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup

But why is it tropeworthy? As in, what about the work itself, not the fandom but the actual stream, tropeworthy?

My problem is that the creative content is fanmade, and thus the actual work isn't what's even being discussed. Nowhere else do we trope memes and fan interpretation as if it's part of the original work.

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

well, imo, im seeing a missing catagory here for "community created works", particularly in that each individual piece of media is a deliberate artistic creation, and therefore tropeable (if I draw a piece of fanart, or write a single 100-word headcanon, or edit together a photoshop about the story we're communally writing, I am creating fictional content which contains tropes). The problem is that each of these individual works is way too small to trope on its own page, and they are intended by the creators to be viewed/consumed in connection with all the other works in the community. So it makes the most sense to trope them all together, with the understanding that it's actually troping a bunch of tiny individual works

I would think of it almost more like a Creator/ page, where we often put tropes for smaller or less popular works by that creator. It's just that in this case the creator is a self-identified conglomerate of many writers and artists

I can't personally vote in favor of getting rid of Web Original/ until after its been thoroughly cleaned (which I can help with) and we get a sense of what's left. I'm not that bothered by having a space for "odd ducks" but I can agree is currently way overused

Edited by Tremmor19 on Aug 17th 2022 at 4:51:41 AM

Well, you have a full list here. If you want to participate in the cleanup, you can discuss pages here. If you're going to start moving things, just make sure first that...

a) the work page is of good quality (the namespace attracted more than a few ZCE-ridden stubs)
b) the work still exists (the namespace also attracted a few works that seem to be non-existant, those go in DarthWiki/)
c) the work is tropable (there are some wikis and let's plays mixed in, which need to pass through their respective cleanup threads since they're not automatically tropable)

I'd like to apologize for all this.

Okay, the thread has stalled for a bit, and I think we're due for a crowner. I believe policy is to start with a single-prop on whether the namespace should be deprecated or not, and then work from there, correct?

I'd like to apologize for all this.

That is normally the case.

I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.

Alright, I've hollered the mods then.

I'd like to apologize for all this.

• Deprecate WebOriginal/ as a Namespace and move pages to more specific media namespaces like WebVideo/, Roleplay/, Blog/ and etc. according to Web Original Wick Sorting. This won't affect Web Original page.
• Additionally, create Web Fiction/ namespace for works that don't belong to other namespaces, according to Web Fiction Namespace.
• Just discuss and move pages listed at Web Original Wick Sorting to the suggested namespaces.

I think I'm missing something, so I'll let FernandoLemon respond. Also not confident what were counter-arguments after re-checking. I'm not sure what's the argument for Web Serial Novel, moving them from Literature/ to the proposed WebFiction/?

Edited by Amonimus on Aug 22nd 2022 at 12:09:29 PM

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup

Those options are all good. The only thing I'd change is, in that second option, there were multiple suggestions for the name, so we have to crowner that separately. Just leave it as "a new namespace" for now.

For the arguments surrounding that, by the way...

• The argument against making the namespace was that "online vs. print" is not a major enough difference to split them; things like Web Serial Novels and e-books are exactly the same as regular books outside of the medium.
• The argument for is that web original literature often has its own tropes and styles distinct from print books, and I gave several examples of works that fit that bill.

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Finally, there were two other factors that needed discussion, both could go on the crowner as well.

• Should Original Character Tournaments go under Roleplay/? (There aren't any arguments for or against since none of us know the genre all that well, plus all the issues with the Roleplay/ namespace.)
• Are memes, tournaments, social media and all that stuff tropable? (This one could also be settled by Word of Mod.)

I'd like to apologize for all this.

See, my issue is: Web Original/ is already a super-namespace and pages should instead be going into sub-namespaces where applicable, the same as with any super-/sub-category situation (super/subtropes, super/subindexes, etc.). It's not special in that regard. (Except for Web Serial Novels, which go into Literature/, which is an overlapping category rather than a subcategory.) So we should already be "mov[ing] pages to more specific media namespaces like Web Video/, Roleplay/, Blog/ and etc." Nothing about Web Original/ needs to change for that. If you're trying to eliminate Web Original/ entirely, the only difference from the current state of things would be that some work pages would have nowhere to go.

I agree with ^. Also, I don't we need all of those options on one crowner. I think it would be easier for everyone if we just tackle deprecating the Web Original/ namespace on one crowner and move the other stuff to a subsequent crowner.

Edited by MacronNotes on Aug 22nd 2022 at 6:29:34 AM

Macron's notes

That's a good point, but there are still two issues that need discussion: one, which I already mentioned, is if certain works there are tropable. And second, is where we put web literature, since currently, some is under Literature/ and some under WebOriginal/ with no rule.

I'll also throw in the argument that WebOriginal/ receives a ton of misuse, so we have to do something to curb that, but cutting is just one solution — there are other routes we can take.

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I agree, I already said we shout start with a single prop on "yes-no cut", and then decide specific actions on the next.

I'd like to apologize for all this.

I guess we can just go with the first option and see how it goes, most pages are to be moved regardless, so it effectively just advertises the moving effort and invites discussion on where to move unclassified works.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup

I still think a Multimedia namespace would cover most if not all of the ambiguous cases. But that's something we can hash out more if the vote agrees.

Edited by WarJay77 on Aug 22nd 2022 at 6:49:04 AM

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Single-prop seems like the best option, so that we don't get sidetracked talking about any potential new namespaces.

I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.

Oh also, since I forgot to mention it: the reason why I'm pushing for cutting the namespace and transplanting all those works I listed to a new one is because, if we were to move misuse to the correct namespaces and cut the (possibly) non-tropable pages, web-based literature would be pretty much the only thing left on that namespace, since there's barely anything else otherwise (there's, what, OS-tan and that page Twiddler made?)

Edited by FernandoLemon on Aug 22nd 2022 at 7:56:12 AM

I'd like to apologize for all this.