Many Web novels are like concept attempts and when are noticed by publishers are given a Retool to fit the LN format of storytelling, often replacing most of the cast. Leaving the 2010 version on separate page sounds reasonable.

Thirding that solution. Make a separate page at Literature.Overlord 2010 (or other title as appropriate) for the web novel and make Literature.Overlord 2012 the hub for the LN series and its adaptations.

Edited by StarSword on Aug 31st 2022 at 12:05:51 PM

A few redirects in the namespace with no wicks had their cut requests declined due to inbounds. Should redirects in the proper namespace be created to catch the inbounds?

Edited by costanton11 on Sep 2nd 2022 at 8:44:53 AM

Yes, they should.

I made made a redirect with the same title and I link this post in the cut reason, but the cut request was declined again.

We can worry about redirects later.

LightNovel.Haruhi Suzumiya should be split into Literature.Haruhi Suzumiya and Anime.The Melancholy Of Haruhi Suzumiya, correct?

How many differences (different tropes) are there? If there are only a few specific to the anime, keep them on the Literature/ page, with language like "In the anime episode XXX". Folderize in "Anime & Manga" on trope page.

Firstly, the anime only covers books 1, 2, 3 and some of 5 of an 11-book series, so anything relating to the other books will go under Literature. There are some tropes that relate specifically to the anime and how it was adapated, particularly the order of stories being changed and "Endless Eight" being expanded into eight episodes.

The anime adaptation having a different title also means that all the subpages would need to be split as well. Not enthused about that.

Let's keep the two together.

Ah, right. That's another difference between LNs and their anime adaptations, mainly that most LN anime adaptations are unfinished and only adapt a small handful of volumes before going dormant. This is because the Japanese anime industry treats them as promotional stuff to advertise the original LN source material than legitimate adaptations unlike manga, with the only exceptions being really popular LNs like A Certain Magical Index and Sword Art Online which became industry juggernauts in their own right (their anime adaptations having multiple seasons and are still on-going).

Edited by CytoZytokine on Sep 4th 2022 at 6:34:30 AM

I think that's more a general corporate thing than anything particular to Japan. Even with Western adaptations, situations like we had with Game of Thrones where it Overtook the Manga are a rarity; we more typically get things like The Dresden Files (cancelled after one season aired Out of Order because Syfy) or Legend of the Seeker (loosely adapted the first two books of The Sword of Truth and then was cancelled).

On the other hand, Muv Luv Alternative Total Eclipse is supposed to be getting a second season ten years after the first season aired, which is practically unheard-of this side of the Pacific.

Bottom line, entertainment companies are just businesses, they do what they think makes financial sense. And honestly I think a lot of LNs could end where the anime does and feel nice and complete, especially when you get a situation like Trapped in an Otome Game where the climax of volume 3 both ends the current Romance Arc and has a huge climactic battle that reshapes all of civilization, so it IRL feels like the story continuing after is just an After Show.

Edited by StarSword on Sep 4th 2022 at 2:45:44 PM

It's true that a lot of companies treat adaptations as a wide-audience advertisement for the source material, it's not a Japan-exclusive thing.

Regarding LightNovel.Haruhi Suzumiya, let's move it to Literature.Haruhi Suzumiya (probably better with mod mover due to history) and make Anime.The Melancholy Of Haruhi Suzumiya as redirect for now.

Seconding.

That works.

I'm surprised the Anime/ redirect for Haruhi was never created before now.

I moved Q-S; there were a lot of pages in the S section, but this was balanced by the complete lack of pages in in the Q section.

Observation: If indeed the actual definition of a light novel is based on which Chinese characters are used in the text and in what proportion, that is not how tropers understand the term. I've moved several pages for books which were originally written in Korean even though Korean hasn't used Chinese characters in over a century.

The writing system differences are one of the things that get Lost in Translation (Japanese is, I'm pretty sure, the only extant language in the world where multiple writing systems are routinely used in the same sentence), but they're more of a side effect than a specific criterion. Light Novels in their original markets are the equivalent of English-language Young Adult Literature and therefore use simpler kanji (even in Japan, not everybody is good at reading those).

Edited by StarSword on Sep 5th 2022 at 4:42:51 AM

So just to be clear, Lightnovel.Overlord 2012 is being moved to Literature.Overlord 2010, right?

I think so. There's no reason to separate the WN and LN, despite what some people have been claiming.

It's going to Literature.Overlord 2012.

The version we're troping is the light novel, not the web novel. If you want to make a separate page for the web novel, go ahead.

Are we really still arguing over this?

It's because normally we put the article at the original work, but in this case the article is at a derivative work page.

I'll agree that this falls into the "Girl Genius is a webcomic" precedence, where the derivative work eclipses the original, and we can treat the web novel as a "derivative" to the light novel.

We should probably write that down somewhere to reference; we can clarify things when people get confused. We generally don't allow that, even when most editors are more familiar with the derivative work. Maybe putting something in the exception about it needing the creator to treat the derivative as the original work as well.

I'm fine with this exception on the base that 1. Otherwise it'd mean halting the move until someone makes a decent enough work page for the web novel. 2. It deviates just enough that LN would have to be moved to own space either way.

And I'm sure I've seen "Based on the work of the same name" somewhere around the wiki a few times.

Edited by Amonimus on Sep 11th 2022 at 5:50:03 PM