On The Troping Code

I know I may sound insane. Making a page on one of the cardinal rule pages of this site. Well, I am convinced in what I'm doing. It can't hurt people, in fact, it may help them.

The Troping Code reads:

The two part credo that keeps us from having a lot of rules:
Nastiness and dickery will not be tolerated.
Fun will be had.

See, I have an issue with that. Not the first point, I agree with it. But the second, "Fun will be had", is what I've always had issues with.

Such a point implies that having fun is mandatory for participation in the Wiki. It is not. Fun is not necessary to participate in anything. So many people take part in jobs and online activities for many reasons. Some people are born completely unable to have fun yet (or maybe outside of a specific activity) are still completely normal otherwise or have disorders which don't get in the way of their productivity or others' lives if they control them well.

And before you try to imply that I'm trying to suggest things like editing with an agenda or for money should be allowed, or that this site is an obligation, I am not. I can think of lots of non-fun oriented motivations while doing it non-forcedly. Wanting others to discover fun works from a certain time or country. Making the article count go up. Filling time on something quasi-useful. Hoping to break records. All while following policies. I think it can be done.

Additionally, putting both in the same level of priority implies that both are as required to function properly. That is patently false. You can't be a good community member without avoiding dickery, as you will lower morale and cause other problems. If you're not a "Stop Having Fun" Guys type (please don't take me as such, plus such a position can easily fall out of rule one), at worst you'll just be less noticed by others and only live to fulfill your quota, which is still a very much acceptable position, and at best you'll avoid distraction and run at peak potential to shatter all expectations and be the best at your thing.

Furthermore, the bottom pothole is something which the trope page says is a tactic used by oppressive regimes. No matter what has happened so far, I have never seen our site as one, and think anyone who'd go as far as to see the site as one is overexaggerating. However, a pothole in one of the pages on the footer can give a poor impression to anyone browsing. Of course, if it's purely done for irony and readers can notice, then I guess there's no issue here specifically, but it still sounds like a potential point against it.

Finally, the idea that it prevents us from having a lot of rules. It doesn't. As far as I know, we try to keep policies mostly low so they don't complicate things too much. If anything, people will complain at rules or changes even if they're done out of pure necessity and outside of our control, like after the Google incidents (which I can see why, but as the page says, we can't change the policy unless we ever find a different service provider).

Before you ask — No, I am not depressed or burnt out. I am evolving my perspective as I grow older. I still have a drive, as explained above, and feel nice once in a while, taking pride on what I do here, even if not always fun. So don't tell me to look for help or take a break. Also please understand that I am not looking to offend anyone specifically, just give out my thoughts which I believe are needed to defeat a stifling and maybe harmful belief.

So yes, I'd like the second point changed. Whether it's replaced with something more unforcing or outright removed, I'd be glad. And I'm not trying to exclude people who have fun, they're fine and all, just include ones who can't and yet try their hardest to accomplish their goals without harming others. So please understand and consider this.

Edited by Piterpicher on Apr 2nd 2022 at 1:48:58 PM

I think the problem is your definition of fun is overly strict if it excludes those. My personal definition of fun is nearly synonymous with satisfying, and all of those that you mentioned fit.

I also think the word "fun" might be interpreted too literally here. "Fun" means different things to different people. I don't think the statement was meant as a serious command.

Yeah, fun doesn't necessarily mean, say... Just for Fun. It can also be discovering new works, talking about works you enjoy, watching pages grow, hell, even wick checking is something I think is kind of fun (I wouldn't do it so often if I thought it was boring). It just depends on what you enjoy doing.

Edited by WarJay77 on Apr 2nd 2022 at 7:35:09 AM

As far as I can tell, it just means "Enjoy yourself" and tbh, if you're not enjoying yourself, you probably shouldn't be on the wiki, so.

Edited by Eiryu on Apr 2nd 2022 at 6:42:14 AM

I see your point. I am also the type of guy who finds fun and satisfaction to be very closely intersected, so there's really no issue in that. Maybe the main issue is the tone/wording of that statement, which is admittedly poor and somewhat unclear, certainly inconsistent to how other Administrivia/ pages write it (especially bad as this is one linked in a very clear and accessible place).

Edited by Piterpicher on Apr 2nd 2022 at 2:10:16 PM

EDIT: Nevermind, I'm just tired and sick with COVID. I probably misunderstood.

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Apr 2nd 2022 at 10:11:58 AM

Chalk this up to another Eddie-ism. He created the page as is back in '10, and it was moved to Administrivia in 2013, although I'm not sure when Happiness Is Mandatory was potholed into that part.

Eddie insisted on short, simple rules and an extremely wide latitude for interpreting them according to the needs of the moment. We've moved on since then, but I think that a concise summary of how we operate is both useful and welcome.

Edited by Fighteer on Apr 3rd 2022 at 3:15:35 PM

Agreed. Maybe it should be "We hope you enjoy your stay" or something? Potentially with a link to TV Tropes Will Ruin Your Life (still ironic, though likely not as negative)?

Edited by Piterpicher on Apr 3rd 2022 at 9:24:13 PM

IDK, that doesn't really make it part of a "code" anymore, just a random wishful thought.

Then I stand by my point and say it should be deleted. It should have never been there in the first place, and honestly it being in 2010 kinda sounds like it was meant for damage control or something.

Personally, I don't think it's that big of a deal. When I tell someone to "have fun" when they tell me they're going to the museum or something it's not an order. We can just remove the Happiness Is Mandatory link.

I don't see the problem with the current text. Other than the pothole, that is.

I interpreted the pothole as like a joke, but I wouldn't mind seeing it gone.

Yeah I'm good with removing the pothole.

I'd remove the pothole, indifferent on other changes.

If that's what it comes down to, I'm fine with it. Removing the pothole should be satisfactory.

Edited by Piterpicher on Apr 7th 2022 at 9:48:52 PM

I think we have consensus. Can some mod change this? (As a user, even one who's here for almost five years, I'm not comfortable doing so, as even if the page isn't technically locked it's still in the footer)

Edited by Piterpicher on Apr 14th 2022 at 7:05:03 PM

I removed it.