Re-arranging Ace Attorney Characters Page

I've read the Sandboxes. Some comments:

• I'd get rid of the "Debut" headers for the major characters, since they're already sorted by their debut games.
• I'm not sure dividing the major trilogy characters into factions, since it leads into weird orderings like Chief of Detectives before the Judge. This is how I'd arrange it.
• If we do keep the factions, "Fey & Co. Law Offices" really should be "Wright & Co.". It's only "Fey and co." for the first two cases.
• For Apollo Justice page, I don't think dividing the main characters into factions work. I'd just put Apollo, Trucy, Kristoph, and Klavier as "Main Characters".
• Good job on compiling the non-video game pages, by the way.

Agree on all.

So if there are no, heh, objections, can we go ahead and update the character pages with these?

I'd think so, but such a large change need more people for review and saying okay.

For future reference since it's on other page: Sandbox.Characters Ace Attorney and subpages -> Characters.Ace Attorney

Objection! I don't think there's any problem with how the character page is currently arranged!

Edited by Paul_Geo on May 16th 2022 at 6:53:15 AM

Going to ask around to vote if it's safe to swap in, since nothing has been done in about a month and current pages may continue to get edits meanwhile.

~Synchronicity I believe you were also interested.

I'm a little late to the party and haven't combed through the sandboxes yet, but I'm not entirely sure if I'm fine with the proposed setup. I can't go into details atm and don't have time to read the thread (it's late and I just found this), but I find the new organization inelegant at a glance.

Edited by Karxrida on May 27th 2022 at 11:43:45 AM

I don't think spoilers are a concern, it's a continuation of a multi-thread effort to have each game designated characters page without lumping all franchise characters together, like how Characters.Pokemon was rearranged.

Edited by Amonimus on May 27th 2022 at 9:42:20 PM

I prefer keeping the Wright & Co./Anything Agency Cast Herd together on a page, but I think the rest of it is fine.

Edited by Synchronicity on May 28th 2022 at 10:51:10 AM

I've finally had a chance to go over the thread and the Sandbox, so here are my thoughts. Also, for posterity, I've only played the Trilogy:

• Agreeing that TGAA and Investigations should both be soft split from everything else due to their self-contained nature.
• I do not agree with having recurring characters attached to specific game pages (or even the Trilogy page in general) based on their debut since it makes them harder to find than having something like a "Recurring Characters" page. People don't associate Larry Butz with the first game specifically he shows up outside of the Trilogy. Phoenix is also in every main installment while Franziska has a major role in both Investigations titles, so having them under the Trilogy banner is just weird.
• Related to the above, one-off characters should definitely be in game-specific pages. So witnesses and case culprits. Dahila would still be listed under Trials and Tribulations with her own subpage since she's tied to that game's narrative and no others. (If it matters, Ron Delite would still be on the Trials and Tribulations page despite showing up again later because I believe it's just a small cameo.)
• I'm not super familiar with the law enforcement and prosecution characters outside of the Trilogy, but I like the idea of them being grouped together somehow. Last page it suggested that the main rival characters (i.e. the Edgeworths) should share a page since they all serve similar narrative purposes, which I agree with.
• I think the members of the Fey Clan should still have their only dedicated page due to them coming in and out of the narrative and having their own thing going on.
• Sandbox.Characters Ace Attorney Phoenix Wright Minor Characters has the game's title mixed up. It's Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney.

Also what Synchronicity said above with the Wright Anything Agency Cast Herd sticking together.

Edited by Karxrida on May 28th 2022 at 1:34:02 AM

So what would be different from how Characters.Ace Attorney is now?

TGAA and Investigations being soft split, I guess? Some other stuff with minor characters can probably be reorganized.

I honestly just don't like the massive proposed overhaul in general when I think it's less intuitive.

Edited by Karxrida on May 28th 2022 at 2:04:36 AM

The Great Ace Attorney characters are already split from the rest of the franchise. I agree the main lawyers/assistants should stay on Ace Attorney: Wright Anything Agency. Ace Attorney: Troupe Gramarye, Ace Attorney: Kingdom of Khura'in, and Ace Attorney: Victims should definitely be reorganized into game-specific pages, and one-off attorneys/police like Robert Hammond and Ted Tonate should be in the case they're from. The Investigations sandboxes look fine.

I actually think Ace Attorney: Detectives and Other Law Enforcement Officers is the easiest page to gut from an organization standpoint. There's no way "Daryan Crescend next to Bruce Goodman, a man who has been dead for like 15 in-universe years and 3 out-of-universe games before Daryan makes his debut" is more intuitive than "Daryan Crescend next to Machi Tobaye". That leaves the "important" detectives: Gumshoe, Ema, and Fulbright, that need to be put somewhere.

Rather than splitting it, I think there may be room in the game-specific subpages for the Ace Attorney: Victims.

Edited by Synchronicity on May 28th 2022 at 7:10:11 AM

That's what I was suggesting, just put the victims in the section with the other characters in their case (like The Great Ace Attorney: Minor Characters does).

So the thread agrees on splitting Investigations, right? I think the Sandboxes are already good-to-go. Shall we swap them in?

Edited by TrueShadow1 on Jun 3rd 2022 at 8:00:35 PM

We can split Investigations but I don't feel characters should be in the first case they appear in chronologically as by that logic, Phoenix Wright should be in Turnabout Memories with the victim Doug Swallow. We should keep returning minor characters who appear in 3 or more cases or more than one game such as Larry, Lotta, Wendy, Adrian Andrews, Will Powers, and Regina Berry shouldn't be in their first cases. They should be listed under a page called AceAttorney.Reocurring Minor Characters or something.

Sorry if I sound a little passionate but honestly, this sorted by case including characters who appear in multiple games just means people who haven't played later games will know Larry was in Spirit of Justice for example. This isn't Danganronpa where there's only three main series games, one spinoff and a Canon anime.

Edited by Klavice on Jun 5th 2022 at 6:21:19 AM

Split the investigations pages:

• Characters.Ace Attorney Investigations Miles Edgeworth
• Characters.Ace Attorney Investigations Minor Characters
• Characters.Gyakuten Kenji 2 Minor Characters

Removed the characters from other pages. Made the old "witness and other characters" into redirects.

I think the manga and anime should be the next to split. Only a few characters need to be moved and ~@Amonimus has made the Sandboxes already. The problem is the manga victims, but tbh I'm content with just putting a "Victims" section in the manga page for now.

As for the stageplays and novels victims...most of them have zero tropes anyway. I'm fine with just deleting them outright.

I kinda agree with that, but there needs to be a criteria to what counts as "reoccuring". Larry, Lotta, and Oldbag are obvious, but Regina Berry or Adrian Andrews only reappeared once, and they're more closely related to their original cases anyway.

Edited by TrueShadow1 on Jun 6th 2022 at 9:47:32 PM

I still don't think we need to have certain characters be all in one case and say "Oh yeah, these characters appear in Turnabout X too but are virtually unchanged." And what defines a minor character anyway? Do the Big Bads count as minor characters? Does Morgan Fey count as a minor character? Does Manfred Von Karma count as he is indirectly responsible for the whole series by killing Gregory Edgeworth?

Edited by Klavice on Jun 6th 2022 at 2:41:55 AM

For now I consider it as anyone currently in the "Witnesses and Other Characters" pages and other one-shot characters. For now.

We can discuss later whether Wendy Oldbag or Penny Nichols are major enough to be taken out of their case 1-3 section. But IMO for now taking out the one-shot characters from the other folders take more precedence.

Fair enough. I'm fine with moving characters that only appear in one other case, but mainstays like Oldbag, Lotta, Morgan Fey, etcetera should probably be in a separate collection for reoccurring characters.

Would it really be wrong to list the Big Bads in their own folder namely Characters.Ace Attorney Antagonists? I mean most at this point especially in the Trilogy are It Was His Sled and Late-Arrival Spoiler. Like there's no way you couldn't figure out Kristoph and Dahlia aren't major villains at this point. Twist villains on the other hand maybe keep them in the case they first appear in. Unless they are major characters before becoming the Big Bad such as Manfred or Mael Stronghart they would likely just go in major characters.

Edited by Klavice on Jun 7th 2022 at 2:19:44 AM

Hard no to antagonists. I echo the Self Fulfilling Spoiler point, and just because everybody in this thread knows they are villains doesn’t mean we need to spoil it for readers who don’t. Plus If it’s going to be inconsistent or debatable who ends up on the page, then best not to have it.

As I said earlier in the thread I think Lotta, Regina etc. are closer to plot devices with personality than recurring characters and so I don’t feel the need to put them on a recurring character page. In a tv show with 40 episodes a character who was a minor character in two episodes wouldn’t be considered recurring (maybe guest if lucky).

If there is a “recurring characters” folder it would probably be best limited to those with personal connections to the protagonists or the plot, like Larry/Morgan/Valant.

Edited by Synchronicity on Jun 7th 2022 at 1:43:13 PM

In that case, why don't we just leave all minor characters sorted case by case for now and cross that bridge when we get to it if people think someone like Larry is relevant enough to warrant moving from minor characters to "Reocurring minor characters".

I think we keep the really important characters (attorneys, aides, etcetera) to the Main characters page and only use the most reoccurring prosecutors for Main Prosecutors or however we're sorting them. If a character is only a prosecutor or relevant in one game, we should probably keep them in minor for now like Klavier, Nahyuta, and Barok Van Zieks.

Edited by Klavice on Jun 7th 2022 at 11:51:41 AM

We should keep Wright Anything Agency, Main Prosecutors and Victims as sub-pages, or at least grouped together. I think that if there was a 'Major Characters' page that had the WAA, Main Prosecutors and Main Detectives in their own sections with a 4th section containing notable recurring characters like the Judge, Larry, Lotta, Will, Oldbag & the Paynes, it would be good.

Edited by Paul_Geo on Jun 13th 2022 at 1:19:41 AM

I honestly don't see the point in separating the Victims from the case.