Ambiguous Name: Bonus Boss

Agreed.

Also, pagetopper.

At the very least, I think we should do a Trope Transplant here, regardless of whether we end up making the other proposed tropes:

• Move the current definition of Bonus Boss to Superboss
• Turn Optional Boss into a supertrope (as opposed to a disambiguation page) for optional bosses in general, and turn Bonus Boss into a redirect to Optional Boss (to preserve inbounds).

Edit: I overlooked this post regarding a crowner proposal because I wasn't on TRS when it was posted. I think said proposal looks fine. If anything, we can simply do the Trope Transplant I mentioned above and send the proposed subtropes from earlier in the thread to the Trope Idea Salvage Yard.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Sep 27th 2021 at 2:22:57 PM

Kingdom Hearts has a lot of Bonus bosses, most of which were only added later as pseudo DLC in new versions of the game. However most are not exactly super bosses, none of them stand out in anyway like requiring to be maxed out and all the best stuff to even start to fight. Even Sephiroth in KH 1 only requires like level 70 of 99.

Vs say Penance in FFX which any strat starts out at 'maxed sphere grid with all smaller nodes replaced with +4 for 255 in every stat' before even starting to try the fight.

Or FFXII where there are tons and tons of bonus bosses but only 1 boss above them all, Omega Mark XII, which unlike other bonus bosses is pure Bragging Rights Reward and you need the tools gained from all the other bonus bosses to touch him let alone beat him.

Or FFXIV which has 'savage difficulty' Bonus Bosses but then recently added 'ultimate difficulty' bosses, 2 per expansion, 20 minute ultra hard boss gauntlets in which your stats are set and you can not out level. Again for just a Bragging Rights Reward. Less than .1% of the player base has ever cleared one.

Or Disgaea, Bonus Bosses tend to be about level 2000 to 6000 and tend to unlock a character... then there is the reoccurring level 9999 Baal who unlocks nothing but those level 2000+ bonus bosses exist to help you level and beat said Baal.

Edited by Memers on Sep 27th 2021 at 5:55:03 AM

Technically the games can be beaten at Level 1 so I don't think that argument holds water. And you are absolutely expected to have unlocked all tools available (even on Level 1 since character progression is not tied to level in II) to take on the bosses. You have to be maxed out in Drives Forms to access 13 of the 15 in II.

All the Superbosses in II in particular at least have like twice the HP of the Final Boss and can be very brutal. High aggression, a couple instant-lose mechanics (Sephiroth opens with an attack guaranteed to kill regardless of stats and level. He's considered the easiest one.), etc. I actually first heard the term Superboss used in reference to the huge gang of bosses in II fwiw.

Edited by Karxrida on Sep 27th 2021 at 8:51:24 AM

Personally, I was thinking that Brutal Bonus Boss could be a (possibly) YMMV trope that is similar to That One Boss, but for describing optional bosses that stand out in difficulty. The Epic Battle Fantasy series alone has a good few examples of this, not to mention the Shin Megami Tensei franchise...

Don't see the point of splitting That One Boss as well, or we'll just have to make "the YMMV version" of each trope there is.

Edited by Amonimus on Sep 27th 2021 at 9:48:14 PM

See, this back and forth over what's a superboss and what isn't tells me that there's a lot of confusion. Ya'll need to figure out your terms, because that's the big issue here. Nothing will get resolved if you're all using a different definition.

I think we're fundamentally misunderstanding the purose of this TRS: The base concept of the Bonus Boss is not what's being discussed, it's fine the way it is. All it needs is a more accurate name a relatively small edit to the description that emphasizes slightly more the difficulty side of things.

Also, on whether there can be multiple "superbosses" or if only the strongest/hardest counts, the description of Bonus Boss is pretty clear about this:

"There's no real limit to the number of bonus bosses you can fight; Final Fantasy X had dozens of them cordoned off in the optional (and highly incongruous) Monster Arena. The key features are that defeating one isn't necessary to complete the game, and they require quite a bit of conscious effort to find. Their usual habitat is the end of a Bonus Dungeon, Brutal Bonus Level, sidequest, or Boss Rush. If a late-game boss has multiple difficulty levels, expect the absolute highest level to be considered a bonus boss, if not the True Final Boss.

Uh, you sure about that? The purpose is lined out in the OP- to split Bonus Boss and deal with misuse.

I mean, that is true, but I do like their solution and it’s more or less what I had in mind all along. If nothing else, we can at least do the rename and figure out what to do with the misuse later.

Are these good options for the renaming crowner?

I like it.

Sure.

I'm fine with it.

Just to clarify one thing, the third option would mean expanding Bonus Boss's definition to fit misuse, wouldn't it?

Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 5th 2021 at 11:11:02 AM

If understand the misuse correctly, yes, 3 is expanding the definition to other examples, then redistributing examples between appropriate subtropes if any exist / made.

I neglected to mention that I meant if we went with that option and no other options. (I'm tired at the moment, so I wasn't clear about that in my previous post.)

So who's going to make a crowner? I've never made one before, but since we agree with the options, and I was the one who marked them down, I could try it. Also I've checked with other crowners and rephrased the options to be more unifrom and easier to understand. If there are no objections I can go make one for Page Action / Bonus Boss.

Looks good to me.

Just so you know though, crowners don't follow namespace rules. I always find it easiest to just go to Recent Crowners -> A Random crowner of the same type -> Change the trope name at the top.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/crowner.php/PageAction/BonusBoss

Is this correct?

Edit: Hollered this post about it.

Edited by Amonimus on Oct 11th 2021 at 1:10:04 PM

Thx.

Note that Secret Boss, Sidequest Boss and Superboss (if not renamed) or any other as subtropes can be discussed later.

Posting this comment to make public that I voted for the following option:

• Remake Optional Boss into a Super-Trope to cover misuse. Move misuse from Bonus Boss to Optional Boss. Additionally, rename Bonus Boss to Superboss.

I didn't upvote or downvote the other options.

I advertised the crowner on ATT earlier. Forgot to mention that.

We have a tie in ratio. Only difference between the options in green is whether or not Bonus Boss will be renamed to Superboss.

I'll give the crowner more time.

Edited by Berrenta on Oct 15th 2021 at 12:49:53 PM

Considering the only difference is whether or not there's going to be a rename and the rename option has significantly more votes, I feel like it would be fair to call in favor of the current top option. ("Remake Optional Boss into a Super-Trope to cover misuse. Move misuse from Bonus Boss to Optional Boss. Additionally, rename Bonus Boss to Superboss.")