I recently took a look at the Plot Hole page, and boy-howdy is it a mess of nitpicking and complaining! The on-page examples are a mess, the subpages are a mess, and I'm sure the off-page examples are just as bad. So this is a project to go through, cut things that don't actually count as plot holes, reduce bashing, and overall just make the pages a much better read.
Why not a TRS thread? Because I don't think the issue is so much with Plot Hole as a trope, than it is with the way tropers use it, and cleanup seems a much better option than a complete attempt at a revamp.
Update: As of September 22, Plot Hole is now a Definition Only supertrope, so wicks are now limited to references to the term. Any wicks that don't fit the new criteria must be moved to a subtrope if they fit; otherwise, they should be removed. Progress is being kept track of using the Plot Hole Wick Cleaning sandbox.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 6th 2022 at 7:36:48 AM
WoodKnapp94
Since: May, 2020
#2: Jun 17th 2021 at 12:13:21 PM
The fact that this trope has a Western Animation subpage but not a Live-Action TV one greatly concerns me... This was a good call.
Anyway, to get the thread started, here's the first example listed on the main page;
- Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water suffered from at least twelve episodes (the "Island/Africa" episodes, which were shoehorned into the series to cash in on the show's popularity) in which members of the cast go completely Out of Character with no explanation. The Lincoln Island and Africa episodes are especially guilty of this, particularly in the characterizations of Nadia, Grandis, Ayerton, Sanson, Marie, Sanson, and Hanson. Unsurprisingly, the creators consider it Canon Discontinuity.
WarJay77
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(Troper Knight)
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
#3: Jun 17th 2021 at 12:15:50 PM
Yeah, and being OOC isn't necessarily a plot hole, it's just bad writing. I don't think it counts anyway.
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themayorofsimpleton
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from Elsewhere
(Experienced, Not Yet Jaded)
Relationship Status: Abstaining
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
#4: Jun 17th 2021 at 2:51:55 PM
There are two subpages for Total Drama.
...That's not a very good sign.
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WarJay77
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(Troper Knight)
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
#5: Jun 17th 2021 at 3:01:00 PM
Yeah, I skimmed them, and there's a lot of things that just...aren't plot holes.
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costanton11
Since: Mar, 2016
#6: Jun 17th 2021 at 3:15:35 PM
Several of the examples admit possible explanations in them, which seems like it should disqualify them.
Professor Gigachad
#7: Jun 17th 2021 at 4:11:45 PM
If you would be kind, could you provide some examples of bad entries I mean plot hole is a pretty simple idea so I don't know how it could attract so many bad examples.
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WarJay77
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(Troper Knight)
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#8: Jun 17th 2021 at 4:23:03 PM
Gladly. Give me some time, and I'll whip up an Analysis of the Total Drama subpage (the normal one, I didn't watch Ridonculous Race.)
But as for how, it attracts bad examples for the same reason the Hindsight Tropes and GCPTR do: excessive nitpicking and shoehorns.
Edited by WarJay77 on Jun 17th 2021 at 7:24:19 AM
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WarJay77
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(Troper Knight)
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
#9: Jun 17th 2021 at 5:02:30 PM
Here goes. My comments are in bold red, just to stand out.
open/close all folders
Series spanners
- Chris often has a lot of privileges, i.e. being allowed to eliminate whoever he wants anytime. However, he is just a host, not one of the producers (although he does come up with ideas for several challenges). Not a plot hole. It's a cartoon. Chris's powers exist to make the show funny and add drama.
- Contestants recover from injuries quickly, but there are some ridiculous examples. Again, it's a cartoon. Also, love how it says there's "ridiculous examples" but only lists one.
- Heather is absolutely fine in the very next scene after a painful landing in "Rapa Phooey!".
Island (2007-2008)
Not So Happy Campers - Part 1
- While introducing the show, Chris says it is being transmitted live, even though it is clearly not the case. Then that's a continuity error or just a bad line. It's not part of the plot.
- Chef doesn't rate Heather's "Performance". He may have been too repulsed by it, but nothing indicates this. Again, this is more of just a minor error than a plot hole.
- Chris says that Heather will be the first victim for the challenge, followed by Gwen. However, they aren't first to do challenges, and instead it's Beth. Continuity Error.
- Lindsay and Sadie's challenge was meant to last for a whole day (or at the very least the whole daytime), but it ended even before the sunset. Continuity Error.
- Generally, the episode flip-flops between whether the contestants are supposed to complete their tasks without technically conquering their fears or actually conquer their fears. Several challenges also force the contestants to complete them with no way out (unless they refused right at the start): This list doesn't seem like a list of plot holes more than just an inconsistent challenge rule. Plot holes are things that shouldn't be possible in-universe, not just weird things.
- Cody doesn't run away from the garbage bomb, meaning he actually conquered his fear. He still doesn't earn a point, just because he failed to defuse the bomb on time.
- While Geoff didn't technically conquer his fear, the artificial cloud kept following him, meaning he had no way of running away from it and thus losing his challenge. He doesn't get a point in spite of this.
- Gwen does conquer her fear, but with being buried alive and the others leaving her behind, she had no way of escaping after being buried, meaning there was no way she coudl've lost unless she forfeited at the very start.
- Harold is unfazed by the ninjas, to the point you might suspect he lied about his fear remembering that he was being filmed and it could be used against him. However, he doesn't score a point, just because he knocked himself out instead of the ninjas.
- Heather clearly remained scared of the sumo wrestler and won just because he happened to trip over her and bounce away.
- Much like Gwen, Izzy and Owen do conquer their fear, but they had no way of escaping and thus failing the moment they entered the plane.
- Trent merely outsmarts the mime, but doesn't conquer his fear. In spite of this, just like Heather, he still earns a point.
- Even though he doesn't conquer his fear, Tyler completes his task both times, taking a bite of a fried chicken and remaining inside a chicken farm. In spite of this, he doesn't earn a point neither of those times.
- Speaking of Tyler's challenge, it remains unknown whether he was supposed to compete twice to make up for the Killer Bass' number disadvantage (and if so, how exactly he was chosen for this out of all the Bass), or whether the first instance was just Chris messing with him (as it doesn't get officially announced and a flashback of his fear is only played before his second challenge) and only the chicken farm was supposed to be his challenge. Confusing bit, but no sure if it counts as a plot hole.
- Chris gives the Killer Bass' pasta 15 points and the Screaming Gophers' ribs 2 points due to Owen having eaten most it, but he announces that the score is 21 to 11 after giving the Bass' dessert 6 points and before tasting the Gopher's dessert. Where did the 11 points come from if he only gave the Gophers 2 points for their meal? Continuity Error
- Lindsay is shown participating the dancing challenge, despite being eliminated from Chef's boot camp after quitting the first challenge. Continuity Error
- Harold fails to finish his essay in time, but is allowed to proceed to the obstacle course challenge.
- Bridgette and Gwen appear to be close friends despite being on different teams in this episode. Granted, they could've interacted behind the camera, but the show never made it clear they were so close before. Continuity Error
- The area for the mud skis challenge is shown to be small in one shot, but both pairs manage to ride in a straight line for a long time. Continuity Error...and in general a nitpick.
- Furthermore, the same shot shows there were no branches long enough to reach the area of the challenge, yet one suddenly appears out of nowhere and rips off Heather's top.
- Similarly, despite the area being small and Leshawna hugging Lindsay after she wins her challenge, no one, not even Chris who was following the contestants on his ATV, knew that Harold saw Heather's breasts.
- Heather (and the ATV) avoids hitting the rock that Harold hits seconds later to end the challenge, even though it appears they were traveling in a straight line. Continuity Error
- Chris gives the campers his congratulations for making it to the half way point, but since there were twenty-two contestants at the start, the half way point would have technically been the previous episode. Continuity Error, or just Writers Cannot Do Math
- Additionally, Chris says they will determine who wins in the end, similarly to the real life show "Survivor". However, it ends up not being the case. Although contestants vote off one person at the time of the final 5 and the winner is determined in this way in the finale of the next season.
- When Geoff wins the burping contest and makes his speech he thanks his "Big" brother for helping him to "Pull back and let it rip", but on Total Drama Island: Totally Interactive! (the former official website for Island), it says Geoff is the oldest of five brothers. Continuity Error
- Eva's hostility towards Bridgette doesn't really make much sense. While it's understandable that she could be angry with her fellow teammates for voting her off, there's no real reason provided as to why she's so mad at Bridgette in particular. Furthermore, when the voting time comes around, she votes for Heather, implying she knows Heather tricked her into being eliminated (which is later confirmed in Haute Camp-ture. Exactly why she's not furious at Heather instead of Bridgette in this case is unknown. sigh...continuity...maybe there's a shade of a plot hole in here due to her unrealistic knowledge, but, like...nitpicky.
- Gwen is briefly still angry at Trent for leaving her buried alive back during Phobia Factor, telling him not talk with her. Not only was this never shown in the several episodes in between these two, but Gwen is still explicitly shown to have interest in Trent in Up the Creek, and X-Treme Torture, outright trying to ride in the same canoe as him in the former. Continuity Error
- Duncan's bike has got an engine attached to it even though Heather was the only one who had access to one through Lindsay taking it from Chef's motorcycle. So how was Duncan able to get his hands on one? This might actually be a plot hole, if it's actually a plot point.
- Chris stated that the last person to cross the line is eliminated. Worst case scenario, because Duncan and Owen wiped out in the last round, Lindsay gets eliminated, since her and Heather were the only people to cross. By this logic, one could simply announce their refusal to participate in the challenge, and they would automatically be safe. Maybe a plot hole?
- Despite Gwen vowing to vote Heather off the next time she doesn't have immunity, Heather stays over Izzy for unexplained reasons. In fact, Heather isn't even in the bottom 2, while Gwen, who won immunity, is. Either a plot hole or a continuity issue.
- Gwen being in the bottom 2 again doesn't make sense either. Duncan, Heather and Owen voted for Geoff, Leshawna said she voted for Heather, and she and Geoff became close friends in this episode. It'd be also unlikely for her to vote herself off before Heather's elimination without being forced to do so. I think again this is a continuity issue more than anything.
- There are several examples which resulted in some contestants not qualifying for Total Drama Action.
- Eva and Noah were on the roof of the bathhouse and witnessed the whole incident with the million dollar case, yet they apparently didn't run after it, unlike the others. It could be explained it took them too much time to get down the roof to get pulled by the group on the board, although they could have just jumped off the roof as the contestants had already jumped from much higher. Gives justification.
- Ezekiel and Beth were both covered by Justin's parachute. Soon after, only Beth was out and ran after the million dollars case. Justin's parachute got pulled by the board, though, yet Ezekiel wasn't caught up in it, nor was he seen running after the case. I'm not sure what this is really saying tbh
- Cody and Tyler were possibly hit the worst by this. Both were tightly tied up to DJ and Owen, with Cody commenting earlier that he was unable to untie them. Yet, when the diving board falls down, the rope suddenly disappears, with Cody and Tyler somehow getting separated from DJ and Owen. Probably a continuity issue, but might be significant enough to be a plot hole.
Action (2009-2010)
Beach Blanket Bogus
- How was Justin still able to speak to Chris despite the latter pausing his confessional at the end of the episode? Cartoon logic?
- Having replaced Chris as the host, Chef has to run back and forth to ask both Beth and Duncan their respective questions, as Duncan has an advantage of several challenges. At one time, due to being tired, he stalls for time by asking Beth unnecessary follow-up questions about Gwen. Meanwhile, Duncan continues progressing with challenges. Who exactly was asking Duncan questions if Chef was with Beth the whole time? Sounds like a Plot Hole.
- This episode reveals that Chris is bald and wears a wig. However, the moments where he uses hair gel, gets his hair wet or stands upside down (including in this episode) suggest otherwise. Continuity Error
World Tour (2010)
Walk Like An Egyptian - Part 1
- Ezekiel is brought to the finish line by Izzy, both of them being the last contestants to make it. Since Duncan quit, Chris allows Ezekiel to return in his place. And yet he places him on the first team (Team Victory) instead of the third team (Team Amazon). Keep in mind that Duncan would've also been put on Team Amzon because he reached the finish line with Courtney and Gwen, after Cody and Heather (the first two members of Team Amazon). I've read this multiple times, and I'm not entirely sure what it's saying; I'm not sure it counts as a plot hole in either case.
- While it can be assumed that the winning team (Team Victory) was supposed to be rewarded with a number advantage over the other two teams (6 members to the other teams' 5), it's not explained why they get the last contestant who made it to the finish line instead of just the first six contestants (meaning Alejandro would've been on Team Victory, Cody would've been on Team Chris Is Really Really Really Really Hot, and Ezekiel would've been on Team Amazon).
- Bridgette is eliminated due to costing Team Victory the challenge by being unable to reach the finish line due to her tongue being stuck to a flagpole. However, Leshawna was the one that suggested the team not stopping at any of the checkpoints for additional teammates so by logic she should've been the one eliminated (or at the very least in the bottom 2 with Bridgette instead of DJ). Furthermore, Lindsay flat out waits at a checkpoint and Leshawna herself even says they'll pick up Bridgette then go to the finish line, meaning Leshawna forgets her own strategy. Bad grammar aside, these eliminations rarely follow logic. It's just how the show works.
- Wanting to end his curse, DJ attempts several ways to lose on purpose and get eliminated. If he wanted to be eliminated so much, what exactly was stopping him from just quitting the show? Especially since he already did so once. This is immediately explained below, and Duncan himself tried to quit and got dragged back in.
- A possible explanation is that the contract forbids the contestants from quitting more than once in the series, meaning DJ already used his chance in Action. Alternatively, it forbids from more than two contestants quitting per season (meaning no one can quit this season now that Duncan and Harold did). However, no such rules are ever mentioned.
- Blaineley mentioned that Chris and his production crew was looking for Duncan after he quit Total Drama World Tour. Yet, in "Walk Like An Egyptian - Part Two", Chris pushed Duncan off the plane. Coninuity Error.
- The sunburn on Gwen's hand appears only whenever the plot demands it to be pointed out. Continuity.
- Team Chris Is Really Really Really Really Hot loses due to Chris's Screw the Rules, I Make Them! despite catching "Jack the Ripper" as they were told. Although it can be explained Chris wanted to reward Team Amazon for finding Duncan, it is not explained why he made Team Chris lose instead of at least announcing a tie and no elimination. Oh yeah that's right, if they'd won like they were supposed to then Noah would've lasted for at least one more episode with his suspicions of Alejandro and the season made sure that any threats the latter had (besides Heather) were quickly terminated. Well, yeah. Chris makes the rules. He changes them constantly. Not a plot hole.
- After Heather throws Alejandro's or her own pineapple sacrifice into the volcano, it violently erupts. However, earlier an intern had thrown a pineapple in the volcano and the most it did was splash. Continuity
Revenge of the Island (2012)
General
- This season introduces Fang, a mutant shark with legs. This means he can walk on land, which makes him EVEN MORE WORSE...except wait, couldn't the non-legged sharks from previous seasons walk around on land too? Continuity, also a major nitpick.
- Chris sets the timers on both teams' totems at the same time and yet Mutant Maggots' one explodes several seconds later. Continuity
- Similarly to "I See London...", the winning team won in an unfair way. Mutant Maggots win the challenge solely for destroying the Toxic Rats' cabin with the explosion of their totem. However, the challenge was about bringing the totem to the camp site before its bomb explodes, which the Maggots failed to do while the Rats actually succeeded in. Not really a plot hole, probably continuity or more examples of the challenge rules not actually mattering in-universe.
- How exactly did Dawn, a girl with supernatural powers and able to read everyone's auras, emotions and past, fall victim to Scott's manipulation? Yeah, this might be a plot hole.
- Chris told Jo that the chest Gwen and Sam were located in is not made of wood. However, chunks of wood can be seen flying everywhere when Dakota breaks it. Continuity, Art Error
- During the recap, Chris says they're down to the Final 4 despite there actually being five remaining contestants. Writers Can't Math
- Scott is close to the finish line, but falls into one of Commando Zoey's traps. This means Zoey was already there to set it up. She was there but didn't go to the finish line to win? Yeah, this might be a plot hole.
All-Stars (2013)
Moon Madness
- It is never explained how the Blue Harvest Moon could trigger Mal, despite it being stated to only effect animals. Continuity? Idk, I didn't watch this one or the ones after it. Maybe I'm missing context.
- In order to get away from Sierra, Cameron attempts to quit before it turns out to be a non-elimination round (due to Cameron switching teams instead). However, he could have easily just voted off Sierra with the help of his friends, Mike and Zoey, as their vote would be a majority (3-2 at worst from Cameron's perspective). Might be a plot hole? But then again, characters will act irrationally sometimes, especially on this show.
- When Chris signs off, he says that eight contestants have been eliminated when only seven had been so far. Math
- It's never explained how Mal found Courtney's chart. Maybe counts.
- Chris mentions to Scott at the elimination ceremony that he came in last place despite finishing the challenge before Mal. Continuity
Pahkitew Island (2014)
Twinning Isn't Everything
- Although her teammates and Chris not noticing the missing mole when Samey pretends to be Amy to eliminate her can be justified with most of them being idiots and/or simply not caring, as well as the elimination ceremony taking place at night, making it harder to notice a mole, it is unknown why Samey acts like Amy to fool the others. Amy made her teammates believe she is the good twin after Samey stood up to her in front of them and after telling them they lost because of Samey, and it's not like Chris is going to suddenly eliminate Samey right then and there if he finds out. Maybe counts?
- For the only time in the season and one of a few times in the series, Chris doesn't watch the challenge live. This is done only so Sugar would be the one responsible for Ella's elimination by telling Chris about her singing. Okay, this might count too, but it might also just be a dumb writing choice.
- Sugar is able to beat Jasmine to the finish line within mere seconds despite having yet to do the climbing portion of the challenge. Continuity
- Dave's hair get burnt off after an encounter with the artificial cat from "Scarlett Fever." However, Sky's hair is fine (albeit a bit messy) despite her being stuck in the same huge snowball with Dave. Continuity
Woof. That as brutal.
Edited by WarJay77 on Jun 17th 2021 at 8:02:51 AM
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
costanton11
Since: Mar, 2016
#10: Jun 17th 2021 at 5:17:55 PM
I'd say delete the questionable examples.
As for some of the other ones:
- Chris stated that the last person to cross the line is eliminated. Worst case scenario, because Duncan and Owen wiped out in the last round, Lindsay gets eliminated, since her and Heather were the only people to cross. By this logic, one could simply announce their refusal to participate in the challenge, and they would automatically be safe.
That's moreso the In-Universe rules being unfair and an example of Exact Words than an error in the plot. Plus the contestants didn't seem to know this until Chris said so.
- It's never explained how Mal found Courtney's chart.
This might just be a case of something happening off-screen.
In any case, there's probably not enough valid examples to justify a separate page.
WarJay77
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
(Troper Knight)
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
#11: Jun 17th 2021 at 5:31:57 PM
Definitely not.
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Professor Gigachad
#12: Jun 17th 2021 at 5:32:38 PM
That is a fair analysis though I don't really see how Cartoon Logic wouldn't count as a Plot Hole I think it could still count if there is an inconsistency in the plot.
I noticed that at least 3/4 of the wrong examples are continuity errors do we have a trope for continuity errors because if we don't then this might be a case of Missing Supertrope Syndrome.
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Very Spooky
#13: Jun 17th 2021 at 5:33:17 PM
We have Series Continuity Error.
back lol
Professor Gigachad
#14: Jun 17th 2021 at 5:34:59 PM
Yeah your right and I see Total Drama has it's own page on that trope so that is really weird.
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WarJay77
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
(Troper Knight)
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
#15: Jun 17th 2021 at 6:02:38 PM
The reason I don't count Cartoon Logic as a Plot Hole is that Plot Holes need to be impossible in-universe as well as out. If you can shrug something off with "Oh, that's just Rule of Funny", then it's not actually a plot hole. Plot holes are gaping holes in the logic of a story, not just things that don't make sense.
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Professor Gigachad
#16: Jun 17th 2021 at 6:04:17 PM
Maybe my definition of Plot Hole is too broad I always thought it was just an inconsistency in the story.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jun 17th 2021 at 6:04:27 AM
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WarJay77
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
(Troper Knight)
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
#17: Jun 17th 2021 at 6:04:49 PM
Nope; and you might want to read the actual trope description, because it lines up with my definition pretty well. It doesn't outright say that these things have to make no sense in-universe, but that's a pretty obvious factor because if we rely solely on external logic, we're just nitpicking. Plot holes sort of need context that makes them illogical, otherwise they're just inconsistencies and silly writing choices, not holes.
Edited by WarJay77 on Jun 17th 2021 at 9:09:32 AM
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Professor Gigachad
#18: Jun 17th 2021 at 6:10:51 PM
That could be part of the reason why the trope is misused so badly that a lot of people don't understand what it means very well I doubt I am the only one that thought it was just any inconsitency.
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WarJay77
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
(Troper Knight)
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
#19: Jun 17th 2021 at 6:11:22 PM
Hmm. Maybe we do need TRS then.
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Professor Gigachad
#20: Jun 17th 2021 at 6:12:44 PM
A TRS thread will be tricky though since the most obvious solution is a rename but since this term is in such wide use I don't think that could really happen.
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WarJay77
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
(Troper Knight)
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
#21: Jun 17th 2021 at 6:13:54 PM
I don't see how a rename could help, what we'd really just need is to tighten the definition and squash misuse.
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Professor Gigachad
#22: Jun 17th 2021 at 6:16:38 PM
Eh maybe but the reason I thought of that as the idea is that many people may associate the name Plot Hole with "any inconsistency" and only look at the name without reading the description.
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WarJay77
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
(Troper Knight)
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
#23: Jun 17th 2021 at 6:17:18 PM
Maybe, but that's not a failure with the term itself. A plot hole is something specific. It'd be like renaming Mary Sue because the term got watered down. The actual term still has some sort of meaning.
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Professor Gigachad
#24: Jun 17th 2021 at 6:19:00 PM
Though Mary Sue was made Flame Bait so something was done, though I doubt Plot Hole would be flamey enough to get that label.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jun 17th 2021 at 6:19:08 AM
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WarJay77
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
(Troper Knight)
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
#25: Jun 17th 2021 at 6:20:31 PM
Right, but you're missing my actual point. I was only comparing the names, not the usage.
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Total posts: 60
I recently took a look at the Plot Hole page, and boy-howdy is it a mess of nitpicking and complaining! The on-page examples are a mess, the subpages are a mess, and I'm sure the off-page examples are just as bad. So this is a project to go through, cut things that don't actually count as plot holes, reduce bashing, and overall just make the pages a much better read.
Why not a TRS thread? Because I don't think the issue is so much with Plot Hole as a trope, than it is with the way tropers use it, and cleanup seems a much better option than a complete attempt at a revamp.
Update: As of September 22, Plot Hole is now a Definition Only supertrope, so wicks are now limited to references to the term. Any wicks that don't fit the new criteria must be moved to a subtrope if they fit; otherwise, they should be removed. Progress is being kept track of using the Plot Hole Wick Cleaning sandbox.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 6th 2022 at 7:36:48 AM
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness