Not Thriving (21 September 2021): Useful Notes.Entertainment Software Ratings Board

Not the main page itself, but rather the subindexes Adults Only Rating, Mature Rating, Teen Rating, Everyone Ten And Up Rating, Everyone Rating and Early Childhood Rating. They are sparsely wicked and were apparently created without TLP by a troper that got suspended for unnecessary splits and is now banned for a different reason.

Also, judging from the large number of Literature/ wicks to Adults Only Rating it seems like a lot of people are taking the term literally. Which makes sense as "adults only" is a very generic rating term and often implies Explicit Content.

I am thinking that merging all these items back to Entertainment Software Ratings Board, maybe with the exception of Adults Only Rating, would be an appropriate move.

Opening.

I feel like the page would become a bit too long if we merged the ratings back to the main page. Maybe just move them all to Useful Notes (Motion Picture Association's subindexes are there). Definitely clean up all usage as tropes.

I don't think turning a UN page into a Wall of Text would be too much of an issue. They're kind meant to be like that anyway. The subpages also don't really have a reason to exist as standalones and just create index bloat.

The index bloat issue could be solved by turning indexing off. Ratings are so ubiquitous that that using them as indexes would cause index bloat regardless of which namespace they use.

to be honest, I have always seen index bloat as a very subjective issue. I mean, just because you find an index useless or don't care about it doesn't mean everyone else does, they're at the bottom of each page, there aren't that many compared to categories on other wiki sites, currently hardcapped at 30, and we're slowly seeing an increasing number of people using 1440 pixel height resolution for both computer monitors and smartphones. Maybe if an idea like this◊ was someday implemented, that could end complaints about it fully.

Edited by Piterpicher on Apr 30th 2021 at 7:16:13 PM

The issue, I think, isn't in how useful the index is, but in how big the index list can get. My preferred solution though is already on the wishlist (just making indices expandable / collapsable after a certain point).

I don't have any strong feelings about indexing everything, personally. I'm good with whatever the consensus ends up being.

I've slept since my last post, and I don't see any point in listing games that have the rating, again because of how ubiquitous they are, as opposed to just listing information about the rating itself, such as what's allowed for an E rating vs. what would bump it up to something like E10+ or T.

I've also since taken a closer look at the pages compared to last time and don't think merging the pages together would make them too much longer.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Apr 30th 2021 at 8:33:13 AM

Yeah. Agree with merging. Though, if we keep these, they may need a rename too. People from other countries may confuse a rating, like the Mature Rating, with a rating from their own country.

For example, in Australia and New Zealand, there are advisory ratings called M, for video games and movies, for 15 and up and 16 and up respectively, which is not restricted, which is equivalent to PG-13 and Soft R. ESRB M rating is different, equivalent to a Hard R. We don't want to confuse people from other countries.

Edited by callmeamuffin on May 1st 2021 at 1:32:55 AM

Well the fact how big the index list can get is the subjective issue, per reasons stated (especially how they're at the bottom of the page and how we're slowly having monitors with higher pixel height so browsing them should be easier). But at least making it collapsible can also work.

As for the ubiquity, I wouldn't say that's an issue either. I mean, look at the other well known indexes. there's time-oriented stuff like Video Games Ofthe1980s, which you can deem ubiquituous because every work had to release on some day (or at least, some year) in theory (sometimes that information has been lost to time, of course), or platform-oriented indexes like UsefulNotes.Super Nintendo Entertainment System, which you can deem ubiquitous because every work had to be made for use on some hardware in theory.

And all these indexes do have a point, based on where the page is. the day something released on suggests subject matter by time, design decisions, and aesthetics. the platform further suggests what the aesthetics look like, based on its limitations and/or release, as well as the control scheme (since the N64 didn't have any motion controls I know of) that can come into play for certain tropes. while the age rating suggests subject matter in terms of maturity deemed necessary for it and tropes you may or may not find (since the use of Black Bra and Panties in an Everyone game in not something likely).

But for the page names, I do agree that the names have never been too good. Like, the Mature Rating being straight up in Main/ and having no disambiguation made it sound like it's the universal Mature Rating, when there are indeed other rating systems in other countries and for other mediums.

Edited by Piterpicher on Apr 30th 2021 at 8:55:21 PM

Index size is a matter of scope. Video Games of the 1980s and UsefulNotes.Super Nintendo Entertainment System have a limited time frame, while every game released since the ESRB's founding in the '90s has to be rated to be sold in the US, meaning every game released since then would be allowed to go on at least one of those indexes, meaning the indexes would get very large if we listed every game released in North America since then that has a page on TV Tropes.

Edited by GastonRabbit on May 1st 2021 at 3:22:47 AM

Re: Indexing:

The index bloat issue certainly isn't a new thing; concerns about creator pages acting as indexes contributing to it have been around for years and quite frankly I agree.

I see another issue with indexing games for a certain rating, though; there are many ratings systems out there and even if they use the same terminology they may not be the same classification. So it could be quite misleading.

Also, the main question is whether to merge or not.

I'm in favor of merging and removing the lists after thinking about it a bit more.

Also agree with merging.

What about moving the in-depth descriptions to Useful Notes, but keeping the ratings pages as indexes? That's what the MPAA pages seem to do.

I see another issue with indexing games for a certain rating, though; there are many ratings systems out there and even if they use the same terminology they may not be the same classification. So it could be quite misleading. plus all the other problems with indexing mentioned above.

Ah, read the other posts about index bloat but somehow missed the issues mentioned in your post.

I still don't see why we can't index works based on the American ratings system. It doesn't imply that every other ratings system is wrong. Again, the Motion Picture Association page is structured similarly. I guess the issue is that video game ratings might be more disjointed across nations? But I'd rather have some organization based on rating than none at all, especially for underused categories like Adults Only Rating that have interesting trivia attached to them.

While I originally only mentioned video games, I don't think pages for any rating system for any medium should be used as indexes, since, as I said, filling out the indexes as much as possible would result in overly long pages.

I don't feel like scope or the pages themselves becoming overly long is a problem, though, since pages can always be split if needed. IDK, maybe cut them for now but consider bringing them back when it's crystal clear 25% of the monitors are 1440p or taller (because right now it's at 20% as far as I can tell, but there are always crowds of people with lower resolutions), or when we have collapsible/simplified indexes, that should solve any and all index bloat concerns.

Edited by Piterpicher on May 4th 2021 at 3:54:41 PM

Anyhow, back to this page, what do folks think of merging these pages back and deindexing them?

I think that sounds good.

Yes, I'd be fine with that (and other indexes, as long as we can consider bringing them back after a few years when monitors are bigger).

Edited by Piterpicher on May 10th 2021 at 4:40:14 PM