Complaining: Darkness Induced Audience Apathy

I'm going to be as specific as possible: As things stand currently, DIAA and AA clearly have distinct definitions. Since we're going to be on a new page, I'm going to repost what I said on the last page.

• Angst Aversion: People who haven't consumed the media refuse to check it out because they've heard about how bleak it is.
• Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy: People who did consume the media lose interest because it's so bleak.

These are clearly different things. However, making financial failure a requirement for Apathy only proves that people avoided the work because they heard about how bleak it is, not that people who consumed the work got turned off from the bleakness. If anything, a work failing financially should be a requirement for Angst Aversion, not Apathy. The only way we'll have a case of The Same, but More Specific is if DIAA changes to have financial failure as a requirement for DIAA, which only proves that people avoided a work because of its dark tone, which is what Angst Aversion is, but with a restriction. If commercial failure doesn't become a requirement for DIAA, it will continue to remain distinct from Angst Aversion.

You know, I don't think that's a strong distinction. Suppose there's a TV series that suffers from this issue. Now if I watch three episodes but not the fourth, does that count as Angst Aversion because I haven't consumed episode four (because I've heard it's similar to the first three), or is it DIAA because I have started on the series?

If I hear a movie is angsty, start watching it anyway, and turn it off after five minutes; is that a self-fulfilling prophecy (it sucked for me because I assumed it would) and I never gave it a fair chance; thus AA? Or does that mean I technically saw part of it so it's DIAA?

I mean sure, it's a technical distinction; but it's nowhere near unambiguous enough to make two separate pages for.

Rhetorical, eh? ... Eight!

& : That brings up an issues I had with DIAA being applied to movies. A movie doesn’t seem like long enough time for apathy to set in, like how single episodes don’t count.

This is why we’re considering rename it Boring something-or-whatever. Boredom better coveys the intended emotion than apathy.

Should DIAA or whatever replaces be only apply to any works it would take a day to get through or gaps between work/chapter release for it to set in?

That’s the best argument I’ve seen against commercial failure being a requirement. But it still might be valid for longer running works which have a dip in popularity as a result.

Should we start a crowner? Synchronicity posted a good selection of options here. Anything else to add?

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

crowner if there's not anything else to move this forward.

Should Angst Aversion only applying to work avoided for their reported angst as opposed to complaints about it be on the crowner? Or was that already decided or something for a separate cleanup?

Maybe we requires examples explain how the darkness comes at the expense of what would make dark works interesting (drama, action, comedy).

I can't think of any other crowner options.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

Crowner.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Note: If we Require evidence of "audience apathy", the "Disallow long-runners" and "Disqualify shows that are dark by design" criteria are then unnecessary.

Why?

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

I'd also like to know.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

Movies still qualify properly. It's a short length compared to a TV show or a book, yet enough to earn a negative reaction regarding how much of a downer the product is - just see all the quotes.

And yes, commercial failure is not a requirement. Just the much-publicized "Game of Thrones fans so thrown off by the darkness that they were rooting for the Zombie Apocalypse" shows it (and the show kept on getting bigger afterwards). It's just, as put in a quoted in something linked on the Comic Books page (the one with the equal parts valid examples that might be cut, or stretched out cases that need the ax - the Donald Duck and Mickey comics, really?), people deeming things "repellent without being fun".

& : For long runners, their long runningness would be evidence against audiences being apathetic as they're retained enough to be successful. If there's an explanation for how they've remained successful despite that might be proof enough. For intentionally dark shows, evidence they were turned off would show even those who do like such dark works were turned off proving it did something to make them apathetic.

That's why the discussed renames involved replacing "Apathy" with "Boring/Boredom", it would better capture the complaints such as it happening in shorter works. And the Game of Thrones having an memeticly good quote from the haters doesn't mean fans (if it was fans who stated it why were they still following the work?) felt such, at least enough to fall under this trope hence why it remained as successful as it did (it's Seasonal Rot was caused less by dark writing than bad). Thought this does raise the question of what would count as proof as the opinions of a vocal hatedom don't seem like they'd count? (Low reviews citing this?)

Someone added an option to the crowner that has first-person writing, and that option should be reserved for the Alternative Titles crowner anyway. Permission to null it?

Ir was added by ~Ghostly Brony.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

I removed it because it's clear it was supposed to be a post and not a crowner option. We had that happen at least twice in the Bi The Way thread.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

It's been a week since the crowner was opened. How long until we can call or can we now?

Will start removing examples that don't offer proof. Maybe deciding the rename should wait until we finish that cleanup so we can see what the remaining examples look like.

Since I suspect many will try to move DIAA misuse to Angst Aversion, AA only applies when they avoid the work for it's alleged darkness as opposed to disliking the actual product, right? Or is that a topic for a separate cleanup?

About AA needing a separate cleanup?

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Feb 26th 2021 at 1:20:39 AM

Correct.

Edit: No. You're correct about the only time when AA applies.

Edited by Kevjro7 on Feb 27th 2021 at 12:41:00 PM

YMMV.Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam

• Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy: Everyone in the Crapsack World the series takes place in spends so much time yelling at each other or dying that it can be hard to care about what happens next. Tomino disliked this which apparently led to the changes in the compilation movies.

If the work was well-received for it's dark tone and only the creator was displeased. Is that just Creator Backlash?

UPDATE: While cleaning up other entries, I've deterred it only count's if the creators admit to fan backlash. Will move.

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Feb 26th 2021 at 9:18:23 AM

Will there me a clean-up thread to handle DIAA entries, or will this be such a thread for now?

We already have a DIAA thread here.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Thank you.

I kinda would like ask do we need a waiting period before this trope can be added to prove that it isn't a knee-jerk reaction? Like perhaps 6 months?