Redirect discussion thread

~Tarenthel 57, you can change the pages yourself. Go to the Related To subpage, click on the redirect, then hit "Edit".

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Just noticed that there are two redirects for Kaiju — Daikaiju and Daikaijuu. "Daikaiju" is a valid term, but I don't think we need both spellings, since the latter is just, as far as I can tell, an alternate way of spelling "Daikaijū" without the accent over the U at the end.

I never see anyone use the two U spelling, FWIW. Even Google barely brings up any results. Daikaijuu also has no wicks and barely any inbounds.

Edited by Primis on Feb 23rd 2021 at 4:21:54 AM

Redirects are free, and long vowels can be represented either way.

I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.

Redirects are for searchability. Is anyone actually going to search for "Daikaijū"? I think even babies born in villages in sub-Saharan Africa learn "kaiju" as the common term.

No, this exists only to satisfy the unnatural urges of hardcore anime fans.

Edited by Fighteer on Feb 24th 2021 at 10:23:58 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

The redirect already exists, so we might as well keep it around. It's not harming the wiki and its inbounds are (barely) in triple digits.

I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.

"Daikaiju" is definitely a more obscure term than just "kaiju", I've honestly only seen it used once before, when this was made◊, and that was years ago. Still, I'm not opposed to keeping Daikaiju, but I do think Daikaijuu is unnecessary. The former has six times as many inbounds plus a few wicks, while the latter has no wicks and barely 100 inbounds despite being over a decade old.

We don't allow redirects for pluralization, so I don't see why long vowel variations would be any different. "It's not hurting anything" is never a compelling argument on its own.

We do, however, allow redirects for alternate spellings (see Grey-and-Gray Morality, which has the other three spellings as redirects.)

Yeah, but those are useful though, as evidenced by the combined 1,900 wicks and 1,300 inbounds.

Nobody's using Daikaijuu, even though it's just as old.

Edited by Primis on Feb 25th 2021 at 8:40:46 AM

I'm mainly arguing about creating new redirects. Does it do any harm to keep the existing ones?

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

I see unused redirects get cut all the time. Figured this one wouldn't be any different.

Yeah, but I'm not entirely sure what the rationale is. Unused work redirects, fine — those serve no purpose. But trope redirects?

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Well, I do usually decline the trope redirects for a number of reasons.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Dietary Supplement is a redirect to Spice Rack Panacea. I don't understand this.

Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.

Yeah, that one's iffy. It doesn't describe the trope all that well.

I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.

If we wanna talk about redirects, there's my "Should this redirect somewhere else?" thread...

And the Mis-pointed redirects? (DestructibleArmor and HitPointsAsBodyArmor) thread...

Lastly, my "Changing Main redirects into Disambigs...." thread...

Edited by Malady on Mar 26th 2021 at 1:16:08 AM

Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576

Apply Head Directly To Lap is a redirect to Lap Pillow. This seems a bit too memey to be useful.

Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.

Three of the four wicks it's picked up are potholes, so arguably it's not even doing a job as an alternate wikiword. The fourth sounds like it would make just as much sense if using Lap Pillow directly.

Removed those wicks and added it to the Cut List, then.

Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.

Why is Girl Notices First a redirect to Love Tropes?

^[1]

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Oh. Hum. It's gained 45 inbounds since the TRS. (Edit: self reminder redirects can have discussions)

Edited by Tabs on May 10th 2021 at 1:13:51 AM

Well. This thread looks handy to have around.

So. This seems like it's a mostly Main/ focused thread, but I had an issue concerning work namespace redirects as well.

About... this morning? ish. ... I noticed that that a troper going by Vulkus had been systematically removing all redirects leading to The Legend of Zelda: Oracle Games (primarily the ones formed from the two games in the duology, The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Ages and The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Seasons). I was kind of concerned because a lot of the examples were very specific to one game or the other and also because a) Vulkus did not leave any edit reason to explain what they were doing, and b) this seems like, uh, too big a project for one person to just decide to do? I contacted Vulkus per PM to explain my concerns and they stated that they were removing all redirects from the Zelda pages in general (and also Golden Sun) because a specific troper (they did not say who) added too many, and also because they clutter the pages up for mobile users.

This honestly made the scale of thing seem even more out scale for a single troper to just decide they're going to do, especially because they made it seem like they plan to actually cut the redirects themselves instead of "just" editing examples to link to the main pages. They did not seem to understand that this was my concern and then just... stopped responding to me but continued right on with their one-troper cleanup project (they finished with the Oracle games, moved on to Ocarina of Time, and then started on Twilight Princess last I checked).

As for the edits themselves, I agree with some of them? The Zelda games do admittedly have an issue with improper redirects. For instance, The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time also has "The Legend Of Zelda The Ocarina Of Time" and "Ocarina of Time" — it's never been called either of those things, and they just seem to be made to catch and/or encourage bad grammar or truncated spellings. However, it also has The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D, which is the official title of a more recent re-relase which presumably has tropes pertaining to its own display and structuring, but those links have all been cut as well. Similarly, the Oracle page has "Oracle of Ages" and "Oracle of Seasons" (same story as "Ocarina of Time", they've never been called that), but also The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Ages and The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Seasons, which are the official titles of the two component games, which both have multiple setting, story, character, dungeon and equipment elements and tropes that the other lacks — but they've all been cut as well.

My impression is that with work pages in these situations, redirects should only reflect the actual titles used and not truncated or "alternate" forms, but if an example pertains to a single installation, sub-work or re-release, that link is the one that should be used. Is that correct?

I made an Ask the Tropers post on the subject (a comment there pointed me to this thread in the first place, actually), but I thought it might also be worth bringing up here.

Yes, because we want to encourage editors to create a new article for the work. Same reason why we encourage Red Linking.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

I see. In that case I feel like those links should probably be restored... if and after the ongoing issue is resolved, obviously.

Actually, is there anywhere on the wiki where the site's redirect guidelines are written out? Like an administrivia page or something, I mean. Having something specific to be able to look and point at would be extremely useful.

Administrivia.Creating New Redirects has mostly "do not" rules and Administrivia.Needs A Redirect has "do" rules, but both are generally focused more on redirects for tropes, with little to say on the status of work redirects. A dedicated TRS thread would probably be the place to have the discussion, although a Sandbox/ could be written up beforehand to show the intended outcome.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.