Conspiracy Theories Useful Notes

Well, this is a bit awkward. I had a page-loading jump on the cutlist and doomed the coronavirus subpage, jumping ahead of the crowner, but still adhering to the voiced consensus so far.

So, two things:

1. Why would "move the content of the tropes to the correct pages" be a separate option from cutting the pages? Wouldn't we try to salvage that information if we cut the pages? I'm just asking in the event that the option doesn't get into consensus range. I voted to cut those pages assuming we would move the salvageable content.
2. Should we remove the "Cut ConspiracyTheories.Coronavirus Disease 2019 Pandemic but do nothing with UsefulNotes.Conspiracy Theories"? The page has already been cut and there's already a separate entry for cutting the Useful Notes/ page.

Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty

My guess is the "cut" option alone assumes that the content isn't worth saving elsewhere.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

It's not what I meant when I wrote it, since the page hadn't been cut yet, but since it has been cut, we might as well interpret it that way now.

(Just spitballing here; I'm guessing only mods would have the authority to decide whether that's the official interpretation.)

Edited by GastonRabbit on Apr 12th 2020 at 1:58:18 PM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

Just as we are trying to cleanup the coronavirus usefulnotes page, someone created a TooSoon.Coronavirus Disease 2019 Pandemic page, should this be nuked as well?

Edited by DarkPaladinX on Apr 14th 2020 at 11:11:24 AM

Yes. And done. I left the Useful Notes page up because it's still under discussion, but the rest of the pages with that title are all cut now.

Edited by Fighteer on Apr 14th 2020 at 2:24:29 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

We had consensus to move the examples to the appropriate pages. In fact, we had more consensus to move the examples than we did to cut the pages, so I'd say that was an important thing to do. I think you jumped the gun here, ~Fighteer, unless you also moved the examples.

Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty

Also, there was no consensus for deleting Laconic.Coronavirus Disease 2019 Pandemic either (it is one of the options, but only if the Useful Notes article is deleted as well). Since I don't remember it actually being a ROCEJ violation, could it be recreated (if it was, we could word it more neutrally)?

Edited by Piterpicher on Apr 14th 2020 at 9:58:51 PM

Currently mostly inactive. An incremental game I tested: https://galaxy.click/play/176 (Gods of Incremental)

I mean, it's such a superfluous page to begin with, I'm not sure it matters. There's no information being lost there, it's just a laconic for a Useful Notes page, which... doesn't even make sense. You can't give "Useful Notes" without something that's...ya know, a little longer than a single sentence? I'm fine with it being gone just for being...ironically, not very useful at noting stuff.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

There are other Useful Notes/ pages with Laconic/ subpages, but that isn't the point, imo. The problem is that we had consensus to keep it and Fighteer circumvented that concensus, which for the Laconic/ page isn't a big deal but for the trivia examples it is.

Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty

Yeah, I agree that's a problem. I'm just unconcerned over the Laconic/ getting axed, since it wasn't very useful anyway.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Even so, I wouldn't classify Laconics as necessarily unneeded even on UN pages. The main job of a Laconic is being a very short summation of its topic, with information typically being a second priority and wittiness the third (kinda a swap of Clear, Concise, Witty, but that one's for main articles). For example, Laconic.John Tyler has "The 10th US President, and the first Vice President to have inherited the presidency.", which is the shortest possible summary you can give while still offering the minimum info necessary to know who he is or interest into knowing more (it's more than I've ever known about him, though remember that I don't live in USA). Laconics can be made for anything other than Tropers/ pages anyway and can be useful if you know how to make them. Something similar can be done here, and I think it was.

Admittedly, those pages should have been made into subtitle markup for all articles as suggested earlier by me to make them more useful, but that'll be done by the developers whenever they feel like it and we need to work with what we can right now.

And yeah, circumventing consensus is admittedly a problem. Laconic/ is just part of it I had to mention.

Edited by Piterpicher on Apr 14th 2020 at 10:14:46 AM

Currently mostly inactive. An incremental game I tested: https://galaxy.click/play/176 (Gods of Incremental)

Yeah, that's true, but still. I just find them less important to keep around than other subpages, since there's no information being lost. (Also they're very unreliable and misleading at times and people seem to make them just out of habit more than need, but that's not relevant here.)

The big issue is that the pages were deleted at all without consensus, including the laconic.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

ATT query about why the subpages documenting trivia (Troubled Production, Release Date Change) were cut while these options weren't exactly at consensus.

FTR, I don't think the Laconic page is that great a loss. There's a bigger issue.

Laconics are irrelevant. Those other pages were going to be cut anyway. Sorry if I jumped the gun on transplanting their content, but what was there to save anyway?

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Valid examples of works having their release dates changed, for one. The issue seems largely to be that those are valid examples that don't belong on that subpage, but need to be moved to the appropriate work pages. Cutting the page makes those examples inaccessible to non-mods for transplant.

Edited by nombretomado on Apr 14th 2020 at 1:36:08 AM

[EDIT: 'd] The entries for No-Hoper Repeat, Troubled Production, and Release Date Change were valid examples, no? I thought the problem was not whether the examples could stay but rather the pages where tropers had put them...

Edited by WaterBlap on Apr 14th 2020 at 3:33:38 AM

Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty

Hmm. Okay, so I shouldn't have jumped so fast on them. We can restore the cut data, but I don't want it going back on those pages, lest other people add more.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Would it be possible to restore and lock, just so the source code is accessible? And then kicked right back into the aether once transplanting is done.

What the hell does No-Hoper Repeat have to do with COVID-19? Also, all of these entries are awfully fussy even for Trivia.

Edited by Fighteer on Apr 14th 2020 at 5:47:42 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

It'd probably be best to pull them out, dump it into a Sandbox, lock the sandbox, and let the rest of this thread fiddle with if the examples are salvageable. Unless it's on Wayback, it's not like anyone else can give their opinion on if it's misuse, natter, etc.

Ah, I didn't get to see what these pages looked like before they were cut. Wayback Machine:

• Troubled Production, 4/07/20 (ZCE problem)
• Release Date Change, 4/12/20

Found No-Hoper Repeat. https://web.archive.org/web/20200410023301/https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/NoHoperRepeat/CoronavirusDisease2019Pandemic

Agreed that the thread should decide on whether the examples are salvageable and how to do so. I could potentially help with that. That Troubled Production page would need expansion, and the Release Date Change also had a ZCE, namely in the Live-Action Films section. As for No-Hoper Repeat, seems like it's mostly valid, at least with the Disney examples.

As for the Laconics being irrelevant, I disagree and wouldn't have brought it up if it was, nor would I have justified this particular page's existence. Laconic.Coronavirus Disease 2019 Pandemic was clearly cut partly because of this thread as it's been given the reason "ROCEJ violation" just like all the other cut pages, but the crowner didn't agree to cut it and I don't think it violated ROCEJ so the cut reason's invalid (and if it did, it can be improved) and I protest to that. Besides, the Useful Notes page is somewhat long and a short summation that still offers info to newcomers and encourages further reading would help. Anyway, here's a draft to show what could be on Laconic.Coronavirus Disease 2019 Pandemic, feedback welcome:

---

A virus originating from a fish market in Wuhan, China in November 2019 declared pandemic in March 2020 which caused a large number of deaths, social isolation, and economic problems.

---

---

Edited by Piterpicher on Apr 14th 2020 at 12:14:40 PM

Currently mostly inactive. An incremental game I tested: https://galaxy.click/play/176 (Gods of Incremental)

Useful Notes pages don't get laconics. Try again.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"