Is there any lower bound for Foreshadowing?

I have a beef with Foreshadowing. It's written as a very fuzzy catch-all trope for things that happen earlier in a plot coming back in some way later. It produces examples like this one from Once Upon a Time in Hollywood: There is a lengthy sequence early on of a character opening two cans of dog food. Later, the same character kills another character by throwing a can of dog food (a different one) into their face.

"Foreshadowing" for me means, in hindsight, I may have been able to predict a later event by paying more attention to a clue left in a specific scene. But the description never attempts to set a lower bound for what "leaving clues" means. Lingering on a specific object doesn't necessarily mean we can predict future events happening to that object. Yet this is what I often see this trope being applied for. Anybody else sharing my pain?

Edited by eroock on Feb 3rd 2020 at 5:41:35 AM

That sounds more like a Chekhov's Gun

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Foreshadowing is basically any small detail that hints towards a later Plot Twist or The Reveal. It's very broad, almost synonymous with The Law of Conservation of Detail. Chekhov's Gun is closely related, but basically says "If a gun exists in the story, someone will use it."

Foreshadowing in general should be used for the development of facts, like a secret someone is keeping from others. Chekhov's Gun is something that is available for use later on, and is not a guaranteed truth at the time of its first appearance (as it could be a Red Herring).

Does Chekhov's Gun have to be an item?

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^ Yes. Everything else is covered by a different sister trope.

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I'm wondering what this is then - it's also a minute detail that becomes significant later after another info comes out

• Honkai Impact 3rd: Higokumaru sees Sakura as her "big sister" of sorts. Later, it's shown that in the previous advanced civilization eons ago, Higokumaru (who used to be called "Rin") had a real older sister, also named Sakura.

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That actually does just sound like foreshadowing.

Chekhov's Gun is a specific type of foreshadowing, or is at least very closely related.

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Chekhov's Gun and related tropes need to resolve a plot point. It's the James Bond "Here's an ultra-specific gadget that will get you out of a problem." If it is just something hinting towards The Reveal but isn't useful information then it's Foreshadowing.

That's basically it. Foreshadowing gives a hint (or a blaring alarm, depending) about something that will happen later in the story. It has to be intentional, but it doesn't need to take any particular form.

• Later: Bob gets hit by a car.

Certain types of Foreshadowing are tropes unto themselves, like Fatal Family Photo and Retirony, due to being so well known by audiences.

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Chekhov's Gun is a plot device that is set up at one point and then paid off at a later point by resolving a portion of the plot. It generally exists for no other obvious purpose, and is thus part of the Law of Conservation of Detail.

• Later: Julie uses the pocketknife to pick a lock and rescue Bob from certain death.

The above is a marginal example, because if Julie uses the knife for a number of different things, it's not the trope. It only counts if we see her having the knife ahead of time and it is used for one and only one thing.

Edited by Fighteer on Feb 3rd 2020 at 11:42:42 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Coming back to my example with the can of dog food. A can is shown in a lengthy close up earlier. A different can is later used to kill a character. Can the first appearance of the can be considered a "hint" since using cans to kill people is highly unusual and common sense won't get you there. Or is it Chekhov's Gun (it resolves a conflict) though it's not the same object? Or is this simply The Law of Conservation of Detail? Where is the line?

Edited by eroock on Feb 3rd 2020 at 6:02:04 AM

It fits better as Foreshadowing. A Chekhov's Gun should be more specific and more important to the story than a blunt object that is used as an Improvised Weapon.

Is there some hint that the can of dog food would be used as a weapon? Focusing the camera on it alone doesn't tell the audience anything. However, if the characters are discussing murder and the camera just happens to settle on a can of dog food as they contemplate the weapon to use, it's definitely Foreshadowing.

If a different can of dog food is the murder weapon and no actual foreshadowing occurs, such as, "Man, have you ever thought about how cans of dog food would make great murder weapons?" then it isn't really any trope.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

In the earlier scene of the example, there is no hint at murder or using the can for anything else than preparing dog food. According to KJ Mackley in #3, any attention to detail and a later return to the theme is a valid foreshadowing. According to Fighteer, foreshadowing requires the earlier scene to make a vague connection between two ideas that is later paid off. Am I getting you right? It's kind of not the same page.

The movie spent a lot of time showing the size, weight and logo of the cans "Wolf Chow: For Mean Dogs", which also serves double duty hinting at what the pitbull Brandy can do.

But the use of the can does not serve as a solution to a problem or escalation of the story the way a Chekhov's Gun does. Indeed, Cliff's use of the can is more of a surprise joke because he spends so much time handling the cans and was holding one when the intruders arrive, and without it he proves to be well out of their league regardless.

Personally, I tend to think of foreshadowing to be more about minor hits about big twists and things that'll happen in the future of the story, or about what the characters would do, or something. The dog food can could fit as a hint about an event, but usually the best examples of foreshadowing are often dialogue based, where someone says something that doesn't sound important, or the narrative notices something unimportant, that you notice on a re-read/watch/etc.

The Dog Food does sound like foreshadowing of course, it's just not what I tend to think of when I think of the trope.

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It's a very low-key example, but if the context indicates that it's meant to be taken as predictive, it can count, if only barely.

Foreshadowing is critically bound up in narrative intent. It can't exist without that.

Edited by Fighteer on Feb 4th 2020 at 5:09:50 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Two things to ask:

• Is Foreshadowing.Coco all correct use?
• Do Chekhov's Guns have to be tangible items? The film Burlesque mentions air rights in one scene and then uses it again to solve one of the story's problems. (This has been quite simplified.) It seems like it counts in principle, at least.

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Yes. A plot device need not be tangible. Not all the Chekhov's Gun subtropes describe tangible things, and they're Chekhov's Guns, too.

but then you'd usually have to use the subtropes instead of Chekhov's Gun when you're writing an example.

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That is correct. Classically, Chekhov's Gun is an object, but there are many subtropes that use it in different ways. Chekhov's Skill, for example.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Most of them look correct, but many have poor context, just saying "X is foreshadowing", instead of "X is used to foreshadow Y".

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Yep. All Foreshadowing examples should state what is being foreshadowed, in spoiler tags if necessary. The only exception would be on Recap articles, in which case it is acceptable to state the episode or chapter where the foreshadowing is resolved.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Foreshadowing is a broad term, making it just about anything that will indicate a later plot development. This is sometimes so subtle that it's only caught on a Rewatch Bonus.

Chekhov's Gun is often an object but it doesn't have to be, and we have a long list of other subtropes elaborating on different concepts, but the distinction against Foreshadowing is that it is supposed to do some heavy lifting for the plot. You introduce it early so that the story can bring it back at an important time. If you have to catch it on a rewatch, it's not a very good Chekhov's Gun.

Right. A properly executed Chekhov's Gun should always give you the experience of, "Ohhhh, so that's what it was for." Foreshadowing in general can be more subtle, but there is one thing that must always, always be true: it must be intentional on the part of the creator.

Edited by Fighteer on Feb 9th 2020 at 3:46:49 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

The only issue I see is the standard "Author Intent" issue where it's not always possible to know what the author actually intended- but when it comes to foreshadowing, it's very rare for it to be unintentional.

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