On the use of Hats and Bombs

...So, yeah. If we all agree communication is a problem, how do we fix it?

Good question.

Maybe we could just all try and communicate more and see if that improves the culture a bit?

I'm doing my best, but it'll be impossible to prevent things like lurkers drive-by hatting/bombing or using socks for the same purpose, since you can't force anonymous hats to communicate without making it impossible not to communicate.

I'm all for improving the culture through communication, I'm just not sure that alone will fix the biggest problems.

Well, there's obviously a load of changes to the site that would help, but I'm running under the assumption that the dev team can't change much.

Fair enough. For now, I'll try and set an example by always communicating.

Honestly, I think we need to change Hats and Bombs themselves.

Part of the issue, I believe, is that they fundamentally feel like different levels of support. "Throwing my hat in for support" sounds like "I support this idea." "Clicking 'discard' and throwing a bomb in" sounds like "this has no value and must be destroyed."

Hell, just changing it to "Add Hat" and "Remove Hat" would be better than "Add Hat" and "Discard." Or changing "Add Hat" to "Launch" to actually match the very-extreme-sounding "Discard."

You've hit the nail on the head. Especially with the suggestion of "Or changing 'Add Hat' to 'Launch' to actually match the very-extreme-sounding 'Discard.'"

Yeah, if hats were rockets instead to match the theme...that could work.

That, or the "good idea/bad idea" option as well.

Why does that sound familiar?...

Anyway, yeah that would be the most ideal situation. Besides also making sure to not allow a draft to be launched only because it reached 5 hats. But both seem to be unlikely to be solved soon, taking into account that crowners still don't work...

Sorry, had to take that out of my system.

As an alternative to forced hat/bomb reasons, maybe it'd be possible to prevent people from bombing, hatting, discarding, or launching, until they've made some posts in the discussion? This would curb rogue launching, force people to add to the dialogue before they cast judgement, and let us know everyone that could've possibly hatted or bombed a draft- thus taking away anonymity and the use of socks/rogue hats/rogue bombs.

Because hey, fixing the confusion with what hats and bombs mean only fixes so much, if anyone can just come, click buttons, and create problems without getting caught.

Also, because ~ginsengaddict disagrees with our take on what hats mean but hadn't stayed long enough to get into proper discussion about it I'm calling them back so we can get their take on the ideas, points, and disagreements we've had here. See if they can offer any alternative suggestions or get some new discussion going. So far, they were the only person to not agree that hats are intended as launch signals, so I want to see if they can offer any counter solutions or points.

If you want to restrict Hattage to launchable proposals, make it so hats can't be given until the 36-hour mark.

I stand by my position that hats should be able to be given for any reason the hatter see's fit. I have no further comment on the matter.

The point of this thread is to have discussion and come to find solutions for problems at the TLP, most of which involve hats and bombs, but fine, whatever.

Consensus disagrees with you, and that's all I'll say.

...So call me paranoid, but I'm legitimately thinking that there may be a TLP lurker using socks to hat drafts. There's been several cases lately of unfinished drafts getting a large amount of hats within a few hours of creation, but the sponsor hasn't been responsible for it. With this situation in mind, I'm just gonna say one last time I hope something does get changed that'll prevent premature or invalid hats, because Houston, we've got a problem.

That seems unlikely, unless the same person's launching all of them.

I've seen plenty of drafts with little interest not get any hats, and I've personally created drafts that have accumulated hats at breakneck speed.

"Sometimes it just be that way", to mangle Gen Z slang.

here are some examples. All within the past month, give or take.

Every time, it's been with drafts that are blatantly underdeveloped, with maybe God And Satan Are Both Good as an exception where the draft wasn't in a completely unlaunchable state when it got 8 hats in 7 hours.

The point is, there's a difference between "draft gets hats fast" and "draft gets enough hats to launch within hours of existing even if it's just a single sentence description, but yet the sponsor is found to not be involved".

There's a pattern, is what I'm getting at. It's not about drafts launching, it's about drafts getting an extreme amount of hats right at the start for no reason, with not a single commentor claiming to have tossed a hat. That's what concerns me. Judging by the reaction whenever I take this to ATT, it concerns a lot of people- even the mods, who have to check for socks every time, because there was a time when a ban-evader would do nothing but create garbage drafts and then hat them with their socks. Repeatedly.

Edited because I fail at linking.

Edited by WarJay77 on Aug 15th 2019 at 7:41:24 AM

TLP allows you giving a hat without clicking on the draft. This seems counterproductive since it encourages hatting half-baked drafts and drafts you haven't read yet.

Wait, you can do that? How??

I thought you could do this by clicking the little hat and bomb icon in the TLP list, but I tested and it didn't actually work.

Isn't that what the thumbs-up icon is for?

No, that just lets you find it later.

You might then think, "why is it a thumbs-up icon"?

Yes, indeed, that might be something you think.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, a picture of a thumbs up should not be used on a button that means "put this on my watchlist", the more precise icon is an eyeball.

...Hang on, between that and the reasons behind the "change hat to rocket" suggestion...

Now I'm imagining hordes of TLP lurkers who don't bother to read what the buttons do, hammering away at both the thumbs up and the hat buttons as if they're the like and subscribe buttons on YouTube.

Edited by Miss_Desperado on Aug 18th 2019 at 11:32:36 AM

Yeah...none of the symbols actually work as intended...

That could very well be the problem.

"Thumbs Up" don't make people think "watch list", they make people think "I like this!"

Hats don't make people think "this should be launched" more than it does a show of general support.

And bombs...well, bombs are inherently destructive, so it stands to reason people would assume they mean "DISCARD THIS RIGHT NOW".