Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order

Maybe a balance of both lifestyles would have been best.

Cause if Kylo slaughtering Luke’s Order in a rage was all apart of the will of The Force then boy does The Force have a fucked up sense of humor.

It's about as fucked up as just about every In Mysterious Ways example when you think about it.

I do hope Fallen Order involves the protagonist finding a Take a Third Option means of continuing in the Force. The Jedi aren't the only ones capable of growing in the Light Side, after all; just because they made themselves synonymous with the Light Side doesn't mean they're the only way to do it.

That said, my enthusiasm is pretty dampened hearing we won't be able to do character creation. Is it just another white guy Jedi?

Thats the problem

You don't want the Darkside to be inherently evil and you want your Darksiders to be less outright villains and more flawed people

Narratively speaking the only way to make them redeemable is to find something else to blame for their actions

Unfortunately, that seems to be the case.

Edited by deludedmusings on Apr 18th 2019 at 12:45:24 AM

Yeah, poor Luke. Only taking one or two apprentices at a time would be the better option, it's how all the force sensitive conclaves work light or dark, but he had a galaxy that was only somewhat non-literally on fire and a lot of eyes looking up to him. What happened to his Jedi order is basically a case of Reality Ensues as much as that trope can be applied to a temple of magic space knights.

Luke at least managed to get things right at the end, doing the whole "become more powerful after death" thing that Jedi are wont to do. Both by becoming a Force Spirit and by becoming a symbol for the Resistance ala Galen Marek.

Edited by M84 on Apr 17th 2019 at 11:11:25 PM

Words cannot describe how much I hate Galen Marek.

I was okay with the entire EU being torched as long as it took him with it.

He's in the same league as Dash Rendar, who is Han Solo BUT BETTER except he's Luke Skywalker BUT BETTER.

My greatest fear for this game is our generic lookin' protag being the new Galen Marek.

There's escapist characters and then there is Garen Malek.

Galen Marek was less a character and more a means by which developers could demonstrate the engine's Ragdoll Physics.

Seriously. The dude is Darth Vader's apprentice, smashes a Star Destroyer into the ground with the force, defeats the Emperor in single combat and FOUNDS THE REBELLION. And he managed to do all this without growing a personality. And it was all canon!

Like, Bioware's writing style of offering power fantasies sometimes doesn't completely gel with SW mythos. But then that game comes out and it becomes laughable to treat it as a concern.

Admittedly great they where, although I think Psi-Ops: The Mindgate Conspiracy still did Telekinesis better.

I still can't believe they included a shoutout to Chad Vader with the achievement "Worst Day-Shift Manager Ever" (earned by killing twelve Stormtroopers when you play as Darth Vader in the prologue).

Galen would be the biggest SW Gary Stu (seriously, he's the true founder of the Rebellion?) were it not for the fact that Vitiate exists.

Oh yes, the Sith Emperor, the one who easily manhandled Revan and the Exile together. Especially considering Revan and the Exile were pretty OP badasses in their own right.

Galen is a single character example of why making a blatant escapist game and then applying it to an existing continuity is a stupid idea.

"You can be so badass that you manhandle all the important characters in the series, and throw it's most powerful weapons around like toys, and are responsible for the series' good guys even existing! And it's canon!"

Hoo, boy...

Hence the Batman: Arkham series later setting it's increasingly over-the-top action in an explicitly distinct universe.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Apr 17th 2019 at 8:52:51 AM

Later on it's also revealed he created a second empire that's stronger than his first Empire and the Republic put together without anyone noticing somehow.

Oh yeah, Vitiate is one of my least favorite aspects of SWTOR. Like I like the game and I think some of its stories are really good. But Vitiate and what I've seen of the story after Shadow of Revan are very what.

I mean, on the one hand space is huge. It's so huge that one of the real-life theories on Absent Aliens is just "there could have been a billion-star empire that existed for a billion years and we never noticed." But on the other hand, the Star Wars 'verse is It's a Small World, After All, so yeah.

edit: Oh, duh, and the bigger problem is that he was making this second empire while he should have been busy with his first empire and trying to eat the galaxy and whatnot. I don't know why I didn't remember that part first. Yeah, as much as I liked the Eternal Empire, Vititae was stupid.

Edited by Discar on Apr 17th 2019 at 9:39:11 AM

INB 4 he makes a third empire, bigger than the Sith Empire and Eternal Empire and Republic all put together and requiring another team up.

Honestly I will never forgive SWTOR and Literature.Revan for how they shafted the Exile and her companions. Yeah, just bridge-drop the hero of the second game and ignore the existence of her memorable and well-liked supporting cast, that's totally how you do a sequel.

Edited by Dirtyblue929 on Apr 17th 2019 at 10:14:30 AM

The greatest sin The Old Republic sub-series has ever done is unveil the existence of a horrifically ancient even-to-the-ancients species of superpowered warlords who where masters of Lost Technology and worshippers of the dark side of the force who conquered most of the galaxy before vanishing from history and still hold sway over secrets that could drive a force practitioner to madness and then saying they looked liked The Rakata.

Avellone recently revealed that if he had done KOTOR 3, it would've been about the Exile fighting the true founders of the Sith, who would be a pack of Lovecraftian thingamabobs from the sound of them.

I think the way Kylo Ren is handled with the Dark side is a great example of how to portray it - it's temptation but only if you have the WILL to be tempted (yes it's easier in some ways, but you never go the whole way without committing to it) - and then he slippery slopes because, as it says, it's easier to be angry and vent and just lash out - look how he treats Hux in the Walker - flinging him all over in a tantrum.

The Jedi in SWOTOR and an interesting mixed back as they're more warrior like, more pragmatic, can do terrible things but still sit within their code.

As someone mentioned before, the whole Jedi not having families thing is weird, as the whole mythology of the Universe is that Force power seems to follow through bloodlines. So, in theory, the Jedi SHOULD want to cultivate that - Bene Gesserit style.

Yes, there's the issue of attachment = vulnerability. But that right there is a fear in itself. So the Jedi are trapped by their own fear of being vulnerable. Yes they say they show compassion for all, whilst love is a more selfish emotion, but I (personally) think that philosophy is... off kilter.

The Sith code makes some sense, but it seems that.... channeling the force via more "negative emotions, or using anger and frustration, seems to bring you "the dark side options".

Does that mean, when a Jedi uses the force to lift a rock off a fallen friend and he's panicking and asking if that person is ok (Showing fear... frustration) - are they channeling the dark side? Is it intent not the actual action that gives you the "powers"?

Or are you just using the Force and the light / Dark divide is artificial and just a reflection of your inner core truth? Angry people develop line on their faces that make them look angrier... maybe the force is doing the same.

But that's kinda knocked away when you have the Father, Daughter and Son knocking about the place as weird... avatars? Representations? Reflections? And locations that seem to emulate the elements of the force.

Of course they could just be places that have been saturated by people exhibiting those positive and negative elements... so a sort of Your Mind Makes It Real.

If they are letting their fear and anger cloud their judgement while channeling the Force, they are absolutely tapping into the Dark Side.

That's part of why Palpatine tricked them into fighting in a war in the first place. War Is Hell, meaning that would force them into more and more situations where they'd be feeling more of the emotions that lead to the Dark Side of the Force, weakening them.

Made worse because, unlike Jedi of the past, the Order in the PT had enjoyed peace long enough that they weren't quite prepared for the psychological toll that war on a scale of the Clone War would inflict on them.

Anyway, it's pretty obvious that the PT Jedi Order's ways were meant be seen as flawed. That's why the Sith were able to blindside them.

Is there an actually "perfect" way to follow the Jedi Code and live in balance with the Force? If there is...well, no one's found it yet.

Edited by M84 on Apr 18th 2019 at 5:59:33 PM

8xI like Vitiate or at lest i like Deadpan Snarker to him.