Edit: I've created the index. So far I've added only those pages that have mandatory waiting periods already in effect.
It's been brought up in a few places recently (most notably in this ATT thread
) that we have a few tropes / Audience Reactions / etc. that have mandatory waiting periods before being added. The suggestion has been made— which I tend to agree with— that some sort of index to keep track of which tropes have waiting periods and what those periods are would be helpful.
Besides what's already on the index, we've got:
- Specific Mandatory Waiting Period Suggested:
- Critical Dissonance - Brought up here as being too early to call on release weekend. Fighteer suggests a one-month mandatory waiting period on all similar "reception tropes."
- Overshadowed by Controversy - a 6-month mandatory waiting period has been suggested but not agreed upon yet
- The Scrappy - Due to its close association with Base-Breaking Character and its status as a complaining magnet, has been suggested for a 6-month waiting period in this thread.
- Critical Dissonance - Brought up here
- No specific waiting period has been suggested, but adding it too early has caused problems:
- Eight Deadly Words - It was suggested here that the below should apply to this as well
- So Bad, It's Good - Fighteer noted here that the weekend of release was too early to apply tropes like these
- So Okay, It's Average - see above
- Eight Deadly Words - It was suggested here
Template tag for work pages:
%% Per Administrivia/NoRecentExamplesPlease, do not add [Trope] until [X] months/days/weeks after the episode's release (Month Date, Year).
Use this date calculator to add the amount of months/days/weeks in accordance to No Recent Examples, Please!.
- As mentioned here, the consensus is that NREP warnings in trope page descriptions can use bold text so that they stand out.
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 23rd 2024 at 9:41:59 AM
Friends forevermore
Now that we're on the right thread, I'll start by saying 1 week after the event ends. That's enough to take away the knee-jerk reactions.
Edited by bwburke94 on Nov 27th 2022 at 8:50:19 AM
I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.
I say Hindsight should honestly be none, period. A lot of these cases come off as ROCEJ or rather disrespectful as is, especially for tons of people passing away.
Though we could also change it to being limited to specific situations. No deaths, diseases, and maybe other major issues. Then at least it removes the disrespectful and ROCEJ part better, but still has valid uses. If that's plausible as valid, anyway.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
What does "none" mean, exactly? Like what are you even proposing?
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
I think they're saying it shouldn't be NREP at all.
Friends forevermore
...I think they're saying NRLEP, which obviously isn't happening.
I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.
Oh, jeez, wrong thread. My bad.
Yeah, I totally misread and thought the idea was NRLEP for Hindsight.
Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire
What many tropers forget when adding hindsight examples is that everyone in real life will die sooner or later. The circumstances of death are more important than death itself.
Kirby is awesome.
Just wandering by to mention, that "actor mortality" is already a rule for Hindsight tropes, so there really is nothing to re-litigate there. The only way they are allowed currently is if the manner of death is suspiciously similar, though even then I imagine there are exceptions (character dies of natural causes/old age, actor dies of natural causes/old age isn't notable enough IMO).
I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me
Wrong thread
Edited by Ayumi-chan on Nov 29th 2022 at 4:53:46 AM
She/Her | Currently cleaning N/A
Crossposting from the ROCEJ thread, I almost feel like there should be something that talks about knee-jerk troping in general because of how much of a problem it is.
Edited by badtothebaritone on Dec 2nd 2022 at 10:34:47 AM
the Retromancer
I'm not entirely sure if there's a fix to it, because we can't do a 1-day cover-ban on YMMV for announced and released works. (Can we?)
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
I don't see why we couldn't, actually
I was in favor of a total ban on YMMV tropes for unreleased works back when that was discussed, and while it was voted down I haven't changed that opinion at all. Knee-jerk troping is one of the great banes of this site.
What exactly is being proposed here? Knee-jerk troping is rather vague, and placing a waiting period on all YMMV seems to be far outside the scope of this thread.
I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
...Especially since a lot of YMMV tropes are applicable to pre-release works, such as Memetic Mutation, Tainted by the Preview, and reactions to the trailers. The problematic ones are either just being misused or are already given a wait period.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
the Retromancer
I think it's just easier to individually list tropes that do get these reactions and aren't indexed already for the discussion.
For reference, this conversation was started by hypothetical concern of Moral Event Horizon being added on release date.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
I would think MEH opinions would form rather quickly, though I'd be suspicious of something appearing the same day as the release, which would have a whiff of Tainted by the Preview to it.
I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me
I wasn't thinking of anything drastic like that. I was thinking more along the lines of an Administrivia page.
(she/her)
I think it might be better to make a separate wiki talk thread for this if we are talking about policy regarding knee jerk reactions.
Macron's notes
I guess I should have made my post clearer: I'm not seriously arguing for a total ban on prerelease YMMV troping, because while I still think it'd be a good idea it's clearly a non-starter (and also, yeah, it'd need its own thread). What I meant is that the fact it was even considered means it's entirely plausible to consider a more limited rule to stop knee-jerk troping, and that I'd personally almost certainly support any such rule.
Edit: And yes, I'd also agree that this should probably be spun off into a separate thread as well.
Edited by nrjxll on Dec 2nd 2022 at 8:00:41 AM
Spun it off here.
A God Am I and Devil Complex came up on the NRLEP thread and we're wondering if it might be a better fit for here. There's concerns that a lot of the more recent examples of cult leaders, mass shooters, and dictators, particularly on the former trope, are ROCEJ problems, but older historical examples like Roman emperors aren't. Thoughts?
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Eh... One is just a stock phrase for a character declaring their a god, which is pretty much objective; like even if some of the info may be uncomfortable, just saying that "x shooter said they were a god" is all you actually have to say.
IDK anything about Devil Complex, but that one seems a lot more psychological and like it'd be prone to speculation unless the person, again, outright claimed to be the devil... and the few RL examples it has all fit that model.
So I don't actually see anything very ROCEJ in the examples, at most we can cut down on the unrelated info.
Edited by WarJay77 on Dec 3rd 2022 at 2:16:28 PM
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Should Remade and Improved be added to the list? It would prevent knee-jerk reactions, as it may take time to determine if a remake has a significant fanbase that favor it over the original.
Just imagine something here.
The Hindsight thread is in favor of making those tropes NREP but we aren't sure what a good wait time will be.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness