Mother's Basement Discussion

Geoff also constantly clarifies how some elements are good "by isekai standards", which kinda showcases how low that standard is.

The several elephants and the repeated bits about how the three other heroes are interesting characters yet the show absolutely refuses to use them in any meaningful way spoke to me.

Also re: the Slavery bit - It's also worth pointing out that Filo wasn't a slave at first, and the show portrays her wanting to have the slave brand and being enslaved as like... an adorable thing? Like "Look she's so devoted to the man who is functionally her dad she wants to be a slave"

It's weird (and gross). The show definitely goes for that "Isn't it hot when girls want to utterly submit to a guy they like" thing.

Guess we're seeing season 2 in the hottest trash of the year video.

I was very depressed when I realized the slavery in isekai thing was so common we have a fucking trope for it.

Edited by Ghilz on May 26th 2022 at 6:37:15 AM

That's why I hate the genre, it normalizes lazy, backward views of masculine entitlement, and prepackages it in a vague Dragon Quest parody setting anyone in Japan would be familiar with. Konosuba makes fun of some of this, but even that plays the fantasy straight, it just has a few solid gags to round it out.

I keep thinking back to Rayearth, where there was absolutely a heroine fantasy of saving the world and being the most important people on the planet. But that never stopped them from stressing over the responsibility it brought, several members of the cast doling out exposition aren't as honest as they seem, and the girls largely have no idea about the specifics of what they're doing.

Thats kind of the brand Shield Hero runs on. It presents ideas that sound unappealing or shocking, but tries to spin them as a good thing actually. Sometimes it works, like when Shield Hero sacrifices a ton of his own blood to summon a heavy metal bear trap guillotine snake to eviscerate the pope. Sometimes it doesnt, like with the slavery or other stuff involving female characters that I don't know if the show is up to.

Holy shit, I hate that that trope exists.

What the hell is this?! I thought I was reading double at first, why are these exactly the same thing?! And why 9 specifically?

…Is that trope pic drawn by…… Nah, I’m probably imagining things. >.>

Anyway, I’ve watched the first half of the vid and, boy, the slavery apology in this show is actually much worse than I thought… Who needs that?

Edited by Lyendith on May 26th 2022 at 5:24:27 PM

I'm getting major "they actually love to serve" vibes that Harry Potter had.

We like to call that creative inbreeding, and to carry that particular analogy further than it should ever go, we're starting to see deformities.

Edited by Chortleous on May 26th 2022 at 10:55:14 AM

The one take away from the trope page is the hilarious amount of hoops plots will jump through to justify the slavery thing but also go "But our protag isn't a monster, really"

"See racism is so bad that being his slave is safer for them" (Also isn't that like... literally what slavery apologist said in the civil war? Like that slaves were better off being owned than as free people in a society hostile to them?)

"No see they get buffs from the slavery and there's absolutely no way to reverse engineer the slavery spell to share buffs without the control thing"

Edited by Ghilz on May 26th 2022 at 9:02:19 AM

The example about nine gynoids may be a copypasting accident. According to a wiki dive death march only has seven/eight homunculi, not nine.

And to be a bit fair to the actual source materials they seem to be doing different concepts with their piles of artificial women. Smartphone makes them all wildly different while March runs on their similarities.

Edited by Adannor on May 26th 2022 at 8:15:10 PM

Isekai is just such a creatively bankrupt genre.

Its a power fantasy in all the absolute worst ways possible.

Yep. And whenever some kind of new twist on the idea shows up it gets snowcloned to infinity. See "reincarnated as something weird" subgenre now for instance.

The reputation of the genre is reason why I loath it when the term is used for something other then anime or manga

Everyone else does the general concept "transported to another world story" better or more interesting.

The comic Autumnlands: Tooth and Claw features a fantasy world of animal people (and actual animal people, so no cute human catgirls) summoning their legendary saviour to prevent the loss of all magic in the land and their savior is a super-soldier from sci-fi war setting straight up genre refugee.

The other comic Birthright features a kid being transported to another world and has him returning as a grizzled adult who in fact sided with the evil overlord because he couldn't defeat him.

Or Disney's Owl House and Amphibia which are both actually creative and well-written, with fun charismatic leads and are especially interesting in their settings compared to the rote basic Dragon Quest knock-off settings that plague isekai.

Edited by slimcoder on May 26th 2022 at 10:58:39 AM

If you want to be super technical, it's modern isekai as defined by SAO that's creatively bankrupt. Portal fantasies have existed for a long time and consist of some very iconic pieces of media. For example, Alice in Wonderland.

Also the recent Disney stuff that Slimcoder mentioned is good. Apparently. I haven't watched them.

Edited by Karxrida on May 26th 2022 at 11:20:29 AM

I can vouch for Birthright, Owl House and Amphibia. Those are excellent.

I've been reading a manga called Dead Mount Death Play written by Narita that's a basically reverse isekai like Devil is a Part-Timer.

Are first two comics you listed good? Might check them out.

Edited by DoubleOG on May 26th 2022 at 11:31:56 AM

I remember reading several issues of Autumnlands several years ago and I remember them being pretty good, the art is great especially how cool all the animal people look.

Havn't read Birthright yet but I hear its good.

Oh shit, the Reborn comic by Mark Millar is an actual reincarnated to another world story. Its an actual western isekai, that also sounds more interesting, Hell it even stars a female protagonist.

Edited by slimcoder on May 26th 2022 at 11:38:48 AM

Might be good. But also Mark Millar makes me hesitant

Millar's a tricky guy. He is actually a pretty good writer when he is not being edgy but when he is edgy its EDGY

Though from what I hear his a lot of his Millarworld stories are generally good because they are more about having fun than vile bloody edge, wanting to defy the darker and edgier rep he has. So ya got Chrononauts which is about taking a hilarious piss to time travel stories and going batshit crazy changing the past, Starlight is a loving tribute to Flash Gordon era stories, Huck which is an optimistic superhero story, or recently King of Spies which features not-James Bond realizing he's wasted his life being an agent of an imperialist Britain and deciding to make do right what he's did by killing all the politicians and corporate tycoons whose benefitted from his spy work.

Huck's conception is a funny case as he got inspired to write it after being horrified by how dull and edgy Man of Steel is which is hilarious coming from Millar of all people.

Though this is all really off topic.

Edited by slimcoder on May 26th 2022 at 11:53:49 AM

<— this isekai continues to hold the crown as the king of isekai and i bet that, when it is finished, it would even top the 90s ones

which one is that?

Edited by Rynnec on May 26th 2022 at 2:45:44 PM

The Way Of The Executioner Girl is a currently airing isekai that's really damn good.

Max Level Witch is also a good one that has none of the problematic elements of male-led isekai

Re:Zero. It also had a crossover with 3 other Isekai that are liked even by Isekai haters in Overlord, Youjo Senki and Konosuba

Edited by Rynnec on May 26th 2022 at 2:49:31 PM

oh yeah, Executioner is great, it really scratches my Re:Zero itch, the constant dark undertones and mysteries also help