Needs Help: Martial Arts And Crafts

Essentially, this is actually two separate tropes; "the use of martial arts for mundane purposes", and "mundane skills as martial arts".

This didn't actually occur to me until I read the page for I Know Madden Kombat; the page explained that the difference between the two was that I Know Madden Kombat was about the use of sports as martial arts (which would be a subtrope of the latter trope) while Martial Arts and Crafts was about the use of martial arts for mundane purposes. To quote the description for Martial Arts and Crafts; "This trope is the inverse of I Know Madden Kombat; it covers instances where martial arts are used for mundane tasks, or a martial art is developed from humble beginnings." The latter is not the inverse of I Know Madden Kombat, but the former is.

I agree that it would definitely be a split into two tropes. One should be a subtrope of Mundane Utility, being the use of martial arts for non-combat purposes (e.g. Tai Chi, which is a largely Combat Pragmatist fighting style used for meditation). The other, where a non-combat activity is developed into a martial art (capoeira, based on and derived from dance), should probably go under a different name.

,So, one is a Master Swordsman using sword arts to chop wood (which I've seen in manga several times), the other is Improbable Weapon User.

Are we ready for a crowner? Do we even need one? There hasn't been much discussion in the past week or so, and the solution seems obvious.

I say split it.

A split for clarity sounds like a good idea.

Let's split it, please.

Edited by GM_3826 on Aug 23rd 2018 at 12:42:59 PM

Can't vote without a link to the crowner.

I feel dumb. I didn't know you had to actually link to the crowner, too.

If there's still time (which, I have to admit, there might not be,) here it is: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/crowner.php/SingleProposition/SplitMartialArtsAndCrafts

It seems it has a good amount of support with no objections.

I just started the Trope Launch Pad for Mundane Skills As Martial Arts; see here.https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/discussion.php?id=vforbwtg6zt0q2j7u4ixwh5n

We'll work on a rework for Martial Arts and Crafts itself soon.

So, while making some changes to the Martial Arts for Mundane Purposes writeup, and trying to get more than 3 net hats, I decided to work on a sandbox for the Martial Arts and Crafts page. Here is what I have;

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/MartialArtsAndCrafts/WikiSandbox

Does it look good?

This needs to be changed. Since the split, only "a martial art is developed from humble beginnings" is part of the definition, and the description in general should emphasize this more.

Although the TLP isn't launched yet, and has some disagreement about the name, I think this description should definitely explain the difference between the two.

Dance Battler seems like a relevant sister trope.

In response... that was the first thing I had done to the page. I removed all mention of the use of martial arts for mundane purposes on the page, but left most of everything else the same, since the trope description already placed a lot of emphasis on "mundane skills as martial arts", even down to the name of the page.

I agree that the new trope that is being split from this page needs to be mentioned; but first we kind of need to know what the name of the trope is going to be.

Also, Dance Battler should be mentioned, yeah.

Another thing I did was remove a lot of examples that simply described something as "Martial Arts X", since a. without context it's impossible to say whether or not it's this trope or that trope, and b. they arguably qualify as Zero Context Examples. If you know of the context and want to add it back to the page when it's complete, please do so.

Edited by GM_3826 on Sep 29th 2018 at 11:29:04 AM

Just wanted to point out that people have been questioning the tropeworthiness of the Martial Arts for Mundane Purposes TLP draft, and seem to think it should be lumped with Mundane Utility. If anyone here wants to weigh in...

I think lumping with Mundane Utility makes sense.

Trying to touch base since it's been months. Any unfinished business that needs attending?

Martial Arts for Mundane Purposes TLP draft is still around. Sponsor seems to have disappeared; I would like to take it over and launch soon but waiting for a response first.

Martial Arts for Mundane Purposes launched. This passage on Martial Arts and Crafts seems incorrect based on this thread's decision:

I think Martial Arts and Crafts would be a sub- or sister trope to I Know Madden Kombat, and only the second part of the first sentence is now true with the split.

Hi. I mentioned earlier on this thread that the page for Martial Arts and Crafts would need to be edited, and had even done a sandbox. I assumed that if there was any problem with the page launching it would be that, yet apparently the page has been left completely unedited for days?

I Know Madden Kombat would actually be a subtrope of Martial Arts and Crafts under the definition I proposed earlier, namely martial arts derived from non-combat skills. Sports skills aren't developed specifically for combat, so it's an example, and a particularly common one at that. The definition of "martial arts derived from mundane skills" seems to be the most popular one and that works best with the original title, so that's why we split off the other definition. Maybe I could work on the rework?

Edited by GM_3826 on Oct 23rd 2019 at 2:22:41 PM

The sandbox looks fine to me. Swap it in?

I swapped in the sandbox to the main page and changed the laconic. There may be some wick cleanup to do but otherwise we are done here.