The Broken Base cleanup thread discusses about examples in Broken Base, but this talks about examples in YMMV pages of works containing Base-Breaking Character, (despite being an Example Sectionectomy, this can still be seen in the YMMV pages of works) where the details on what is suitable is also vague.
Here is the criteria for Base-Breaking Character:
- A long-term, sustained conflict: Characters that were simply hated and loved, then had their interest evaporated away (both positive and negative) after a few months doesn't count. Characters in upcoming works also don't count.
- A vicious conflict: Factions that have little problem co-existing and doesn't mind about what the other faction likes or dislikes about the character doesn't count. If it's not particularly vicious and heated, then it would be cut or be listed as a Downplayed Trope.
- Two (or more) vocal, almost equally sized factions: A tiny Vocal Minority that doesn't shut up their pet peeve, whilst being outnumbered by more reasonable fans don't count. Nor does a Silent Majority who doesn't make a big deal with the other side count. If one of the hating factions is significantly bigger than the other, it would be classified as The Scrappy or an Ensemble Dark Horse.
- Little to no Middle ground: Scenarios where most of the fandom doesn't care about the character, don't count.
Base-Breaking Character is when half of the fandom likes a character, yet another equally sized half dislikes it. Now that happens, but the problem is, some entries aren't really contentious (thus not resulting in flame wars when someone says they "liked that character"). Also, several entries are one-sided towards the negative or the positive side describing that only side in detail, but then wrapping up with a single line saying "But the other half likes that character". A correct way would be describing it like "a split in the Fandom on who likes it or not", with details on both sides why they're liked and disliked.
Here's an example from YMMV.Undertale:
- Alphys. A lot of players find her character gimmick of constant messages and attempts to help more annoying than funny, especially on repeat playthroughs. And even though she has sympathetic reasons, the reveal that she's been experimenting on sick monsters to create the Amalgamates and manipulating the player to feel better about herself doesn't help, especially since she never directly apologizes for the latter.
While it may have annoyed players due to these reasons above, there has been a considerable amount of fanarts and comics or her, and not only that, the like-dislike situation hasn't been so contentious (compared to Sans, whom he's popular, now he sucks.)
edited 21st Feb '18 1:46:31 PM by AppleGates
I agree it looks good.
Does Flash Sentry really count for this trope?
"Listen up, Marina, because this is SUPER important. Whatever you do, don't eat th“ “DON'T EAT WHAT?! Your text box ran out of space!”
Angry babby
I think Flash is closer to The Scrappy. Unless he suddenly got a lot of fans while I wasn't looking.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Yeah, I don't think he has enough fans defending him to be a BBC. I have heard of some people feeling sorry for him after he gets ditched by human Twilight, but idk if it was enough to have him Rescued from the Scrappy Heap.
"Let’s see who’s stronger: someone that has something to protect, or someone that has nothing to lose."
Bringing up the following examples from Tall Girl:
- Base-Breaking Character:
- While Jodi is hated by general audiences for her wangsting and general lack of a personality, she does have some equally tall women sympathizing with her.
- Dunkleman is particularly divisive. Some see him exactly the way the movie intended for him to be seen, others think he comes across as an entitled, obsessive and jealous asshole.
- Harper as well, some people (specially Sabrina Carpenter´s fans) found her the best part of the movie (if not the only good part) while others found her too intense and annoying .
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I do feel like Dunkleman can stay because I remember seeing quite a few people saying they thought he was one of the better parts of the movie while others thought he was a creep. Not entirely sure about the others. I do think people generally tend to just not like Jodi, though.
cut all of them. None of those entries come across as intense conflict within the fandom.
Could anyone in the know of Sesame Street help with rewriting this BBC entry about Elmo?
- Base-Breaking Character:
- Elmo. After Kevin Clash started performing him, he became a Creator's Pet to a lot of the show's older fans. Clash, on the other hand, has developed into the Derek Jeter of children's television, set with the task of training Muppeteers all over the world.
This dosen't explain what people like about him, instead going on about how his puppeteer was a big influence.
Edited by PlasmaPower on May 17th 2021 at 3:53:58 PM
Thomas fans needed! Come join me in the the show's cleanup thread!
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
I have a question can a real life person be this. Because I found this on American Horror Story, and am wondering if it is a misuse.
- Base-Breaking Character: More of a case of Base-Breaking Recurring Actor. Sarah Paulson's recurring role through the series has divided opinion. Some people like her due to playing The Woobie only to be shown to be as manipulative and controlling as the show's villains, but on the other hand, some people have grown very tired of her often being the heavy focus of the show regardless of the season or character she's playing, and beyond that, for coming up on top almost all the time, to the point where some fans have dropped the show outright because they know Sarah Paulson will have a big role and, after much woobeing, will come up on top, again, once more.
Angry babby
Since it's about an actor and not a character, it probably better fits Broken Base.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Should I just move it there?
Edited by Bullman on May 18th 2021 at 3:28:20 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
That information about Kevin Clash is a half-decade out of date. Clash hasn't worked on Sesame Street for years and he's now mostly a freelance puppeteer that works for various projects, mostly for Brian Henson. Martin Robinson is the guy that trains people across the world for various incarnations of Sesame Street.
Elmo's only "base-breaking" if you have a very broad idea of what Sesame Street's fanbase is or should be. The kids who actually watch the show love him. The parents who happen to be in the room when the show's on or random people online who just want something to complain about are the ones who are behind most of the negativity. Elmo represented a major paradigm shift for the show's tone, demographics, and format, but he didn't cause them, he just was the show's top character when they happened.
Angry babby
I assumed the entry was referring to the legitimate Sesame Street adult fanbase (which I know exists, because most Muppet properties have legitimate adult fanbases), not just "parents who happen to be in the same room." The issue seems to more be that the fanbase is broken between adult long-time fans and young children.
Edited by mightymewtron on May 18th 2021 at 7:24:24 AM
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
I'm still wondering if anyone can rewrite the Elmo entry, since it's pretty one-sided as of now. There's defiantly adult fans who like Elmo, mostly Millennials and and beyond I assume.
Edited by PlasmaPower on May 18th 2021 at 8:42:38 AM
Thomas fans needed! Come join me in the the show's cleanup thread!
You're right, Sesame Street does have a not-insignificant adult audience, which is at least part of its success. I just question how much consideration that quotient of the audience is given when creative decisions are made. The sales of millions of Elmo dolls (remember, CTW is non-profit) were probably speaking a lot louder than (often legitimate) criticisms of the character being overexposed. If the only way to keep the lights on is to give the viewers what they want to see, and they say "we want more Elmo" loud and clear, you give them more Elmo.
How is this for a rewrite?
- Elmo is a contentious character, specifically after Kevin Clash made his character into what he is today. Many older fans hate him for the screen time he gets at the cost of other characters and for seemingly not bringing anything to the table. There are also a lot of fans, both young and old, who love him for being relatable to the target audience and his bright, friendly attitude.
Edited by PlasmaPower on May 18th 2021 at 2:37:03 PM
Thomas fans needed! Come join me in the the show's cleanup thread!
Coffeenix! (She/Her)
Seems okay to me, not sure what those changes to Elmo's character are though.
Bumping because I found this on YMMV.Bang Dream
While Kokoro as a character is generally beloved on both sides of the Pacific, some fans take issue with her singing voice, especially for cover songs. While her detractors tend to view her upbeat and bouncy vocals as a poor fit for more "serious" songs like "Silhouette" at best and Cute, but Cacophonic at worst; while her fans point out that the upbeat optimism that her voice adds to songs adds a new depth to them and that her voice is surprisingly versatile, letting her get away with more unique songs like "Sugar Song and Bitter Step." I think this would better fit Broken Base because it's about the character's voice, not the character themselves. The entry even admits that Kokoro as a character isn't base breaking.
Sandbox help wanted.
If an entry itself admits the example isn't really an example, it's usually a good idea to cut it, or at least rewrite it so it doesn't sound like it's arguing with itself. In this case, putting the entry under Broken Base would be a lot better.
Edited by Shadow8411 on May 26th 2021 at 4:23:35 AM
I was wondering how to you quantify a base breaking character in the Pokemon Anime. it seems practically every character has large amounts of fans and detractors. I was wondering if the anime incarnations of Max, Bonnie, Bianca, Giovanni, Team Plasma, Lusamine and Harley qualify. Max and Bonnie for the typical reasons Kid Appeal Characters are disliked. Harley for wether people find his antics funny or annying and the rest for how they deviate from the games. But Im unsure if any have a big enough divide
The Unknown
I can't speak for everyone, but I was still in the target demographic when Max was around and I don't think I liked him. He only seemed to exist to dunk on May and his voice was annoying.
I also didn't like Harley, but he's also intended to be a Hate Sink and didn't appear very often.
If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?
Angry babby
I personally liked Max fine as a kid but I may have been a minority. But I know Harley has a fanbase — he's Base-Breaking Character at worst.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Max is hated?! And Harley? What the...
"Listen up, Marina, because this is SUPER important. Whatever you do, don't eat th“ “DON'T EAT WHAT?! Your text box ran out of space!”
The Unknown
Max being hated isn't exactly a new development. Last I checked he was actually listed as The Scrappy but that might have changed.
Edited by Karxrida on Jun 16th 2021 at 11:17:19 AM
If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?
EDIT: Sorry, mistook this for The Scrappy thread.
Looking at the edit history for the Pokemon Scrappy subpage, Max has been blacklisted as The Scrappy since he was deemed a Base-Breaking Character, which by definition has enough fans to disqualify him from Scrappydom.
Edited by dragonfire5000 on Jun 16th 2021 at 11:29:25 AM
Looks good to me.
Edit: Damn page-topper.
Edited by RainbowPumpqueen on Apr 8th 2021 at 1:00:30 AM
Sandbox help wanted.