How do the dominant cultural narratives in art and mass media affect our politics?

They aren't quite as antagonistic as say, physicists and economicists. It also depends a bit more on what specific place you're in.

From my understanding, in the United States things like archaeology are generally seen as harder sciences than in Europe. At least that's what my archaeology teacher told me.

A lot of scientists like Tyson keep peddling the myth that Rome was a science utopia and that the middle ages were technologically stagnant because of religious fanaticism (and that Rome fell because of religion in some manner), which just isn't true.

On the subject of "nerd oppression", I think it was true but only in a sense. To me it seems like the people who were bullied and oppressed were the introverts and socially eccentric. Many (but not all) nerds fit that criteria, so they were bullied, but Pop Culture got the cause and effect backwards (introverts were drawn to nerd culture and were bullied for being introverts, not necessairily for being nerds).

Ok... So... Yeah... No...

The 'nerd hate' followed by the 'nerd lionisation' in fiction over the past decades has little to do with social awkwardness or being introverted and everything to do with the penultimate decades of the Cold War.

During which time stories, particularly American ones, took a turn for the anti-intellectual on account of the intelligentsia and educated youths being much, much more inclined to be critical of the imperialism and crypto-colonialism the US was undertaking under the banner of 'containing Communism'.

To the point that by the time the 80s rolled around, conformity to the prevalent norms and mores of 'society' (and, by extension, loyalty to the system) was seen as infinitely more valuable than intelligence and any character who was trying to better themselves through study rather than social acceptance was portrayed as hopelessly naïve at best and more usually as a hopeless failure.

The subsequent lionization of nerds as the 'underdog who will shows them all', of course, being a direct counter-push to that culture of conformity.

While social awkwardness plays a role in that, it was only ever a contributing factor.

Edited by Robrecht on Sep 17th 2018 at 12:16:09 PM

Kinda both I said that nerd have being hated in part for the idea of action over thinking, that what a good male need is too JUST DO IT!, also the idea of not giving a shit being seen as cool and stoic.

Many nerd internilize this or secretely want it all along.

Male white nerds wanted to state, "I too hate women and black people. Now that I'm rich, you'll respect my right to both!"

Well, the point is more that nearly all of both the fictional and real-life 'nerd success stories' (real life examples being likes of Jobs, Gates, Zuckerberg^note Fun fact which is not at all related to the topic: I just noticed that Firefox's spell-checker insists that Zuckerberg is spelled incorrectly. It's suggestion for the correct spelling? Cocksucker. I think maybe someone at Mozilla has a grudge, because the spell-checker doesn't usually make suggestions that different from the spelling you used. et al) all involve people who are both nerds and demonstrably extroverts.

Which makes sense as the two are by no means mutually exclusive.

Also worth noting that what used to be “nerd culture” is pretty much just mainstream pop culture these days, so there is a bit of a gatekeeping thing going on.

Yeah while the jocks of today might not read they do post online (normally Reddit or instagram) and play video games (normally sports games or FPS).

I wonder if given enough time society may hit the point that my (insanely progressive) school did, where the jocks are the ones playing D&D (they’d sneak me out of my room at night to DM).

The way that I would put it is that a lot of men who could be classified as "nerds" suffer from the fact that they don't or can't adhere to expectations of traditional masculinity. This can result in more overt problems like bullying, or just the person developing a lot of insecurities and psychological issues despite most people not being overly mean to them.

This, in and of itself, is a perfectly valid thing to criticize: society does instill a lot of bad messages to men that make many of them feel worthless, that they aren't "good enough", treating what might be strengths as weaknesses and encouraging them to suppress their truest self.

However, this has traditionally not been coupled with a broader societal education, which leads these kinds of people to create a victimization complex that equates their issues with the struggles of actual ethnic and religious minorities, which is deeply problematic for many reasons. And more than that, many of them don't realize what the real issue is; rather than recognizing the precise way in which this system is unfair and replacing it with a healthier, more humane outlook towards themselves and other people, they continue to believe in this system and its values.

While I don't necessarily hold Bob Chipman in super high regard these days, he did make a pretty cromulent observation years ago by highlighting that it was this kind of broad trauma that led nerds towards viewing their hobbies such as movies, videogames, etc as an "oasis" away from a harsh, unforgiving environment where they were not respected or valued. This is what's at the heart of gatekeeping: it's their "safe space", so anyone they view as being not like them is an affront to that space.

While always flawed, this is an even more outdated concept now that by and large, there's nothing particularly uncool or weird about say, liking anime, or superhero comics, or cartoons. Being a nerd is mainstream now. Which I think has left some people in a situation where they don't know what to do now that they can't reasonably justify viewing themselves as some kind of outcast anymore.

I'm not going to parrot a trite platitude about how being nice is going to solve everything, but I do think that until we start teaching men from an early age that they don't have to be a "real man" to be worth something and that it's that their moral character that really matters, we won't see much progress going forward.

I've brought it up before, but this video by Youtube Lily Peet, makes a rather strong case that the Big Bang Theory is supposed to be a critique of nerd culture. Highlights of the video include showing that Howard is often punished for his disrespect towards women, that Sheldon's behavior is not tolerated and that he actually does grow and develop.

Edited by windleopard on Sep 18th 2018 at 4:17:33 AM

I'd usually hate the term Status Quo Warrior because a Alt Righter is regressive and thus not really trying to preserve society as it is.

But a video that I saw is the definition of "Why Political correctness ban gender and race humor unless it humillitates white males" in ads.

While I'd actually agree that ridiculizating anyone, even white males, is a bad idea for advertisements (good way to mock a big market). His examples went more ridiculous and ridiculous.

Like. Ads that show woman living men with cars are always fine because science!!!. Grossly sexist ads about how males sleep with tons of woman? Science!!! (Nevermind that the idea of Alpha Male having tons of sex harms men even more than woman).

Also. While he mocked it, his strawman "70 years old Black Lesbian Woman" is something that I...would actually like to see. Non white old people, especially woman have it pretty rought. Is good to show that LTGB people aren't a product of "Modernity" but that they always were there.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Sep 18th 2018 at 9:03:37 AM

Yeah that sounds interesting, not to mention that it's extremely telling in an ugly way that he apparently views that as something ridiculous and worthy of mockery.

The great alliance of international gran grans of the world.

Hey honey, you wanna taste my cookies?

Nah, try my african cuisine

You all are getting it wrong. Patbingsu is the best. And I'm korean, not Chinese!!

Oh Grandmothers...

Let someone share this and get a movie about old woman. Especially non whites, those poor ladies don't get job after their youth ages.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Sep 18th 2018 at 9:23:41 AM

So. I'm writing about Fantasy Genocides.

Maybe Genocide isn't the right word. But Mass Murder. Albeit with very ideological and ethnic motivations. There certainly cases of both.

The whole story is a Science Fantasy story. Where like in Star Wars, the archetypal Science Fantasy story. The fascist dictator is also a magical Evil Overlord.

Well. Is even more extreme. There a God Is Evil Omnicidal Maniac that manipulates people into killing each other...and a point is that she don't have to manipulate a lot.

She just...back up people that will commit horrors. From cultists Serial Killer to Dictator wannabes that will drop the wannabe.

Remember the typical Joke scenario of Hitler with nukes? Change nukes with magical powers and you got it.

Is...as awful as it sounds.

The God of Evil is the Big Bad, but a point is made that killing her is far from enough to stop the bloodshed. She will drops the nukes herself, but she usually let her allies do it.

Basically. Her whole character is that she isn't forcing anyone to commit attrocities. She's giving them the means.

Of course she commits attrocities herself too. She's The Big Bad of a Science Fantasy story.

But her point to justify her utter hate towards humanity is that she don't have to brainwash anyone to convince them to commit horrors. She just have to find a right person and/or group and they will start the bloodshed.

Opinions? I want to have a sobrenatural Big Bad while also preserving the agency of the more human and mundane villains.

The Big Bad is the founder of The Empire, but not her current ruler and despite that, it's soldiers commit attrocities just fine. The Big Bad herself defined it:

"Sentient beings don't need a Evil Goddess telling them to kill each other. They already do it without me, I just given them the means to do it more effectively."

Edited by KazuyaProta on Sep 18th 2018 at 12:08:49 PM

I can respect that

That is one problem when you have a supernatural source of evil you have to consider

Wonder Woman might be a good reference for that theme. That just defeating the Big Bad isn't enough to stop all the world's evils, and that gods only speedup the malevolent process that humanity undergoes.

Edited by MorningStar1337 on Sep 18th 2018 at 10:57:25 AM

Star Wars IMO avoided that with the presence of Tarkin, especially in the EU-s. A non-force user officer that is as vile as Palpatine in his own way.

Palpatine is a evil magician that is also a dictator. Tarkin is the realistic dictator empowered for the former.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Sep 18th 2018 at 12:55:57 PM

Sounds good, it has all the benefit of having a God of Evil without erasing moral culpability.

Nice.

Oh yeah, I was already thinking on that when I saw the movie. It was one of it's biggest highlights.

The Big Bad is the Palpatine to many, many Tarkin equivalents.

I'm wondering about heritage. Especially white heritage.

There a lot of white nationalists in love with their ancestors, but also a lot of reasonable well meaning people that care for their ancestors.

Obviously you're not gonna ban them from doing it. But sometimes the line come close...especially if is from a poor eastern european country, which have suffered a lot.

Dunno how to feel about it. Especially media representation such as wanting non white people in a game set in eastern europe in a period with low inmigration.

Is a interesting thing to do. Especially when it cross with sexism.

If they frame it as white heritage specifically as opposed to taking pride in being French, German, English, Spanish, Italian, Irish, etc. then there's a problem.

And no, it's not the same thing as black heritage in the USA. As others have said in the past in OTC, a lot of black people in the USA cannot trace their roots back since that heritage was taken from them when their ancestors were enslaved.

Edited by M84 on Sep 19th 2018 at 12:27:46 AM

Has anyone ever read a story in which The Unchosen One was a poc? I'm interested in writing such a story myself.

Edited by windleopard on Sep 18th 2018 at 9:46:40 AM

Frankly, if you ask an European, an American is an American. I understand that there are differences within American Society itself based on History alone, but from our perspective, it doesn't matter if someone's ancestors came with the Mayflower, that doesn't make said person British, nor is someone Frech-American or German-American just because of some genetic test. If you still speak the language and grew at least partly up with strong influences from French or German or Italian culture, than you can claim it as part of your identity, but most Americans grew up steeped in American culture and have barely any idea of the country (nowadays usually countries) their ancestors once came from.

So go me away with the notion of a "White Culture". It doesn't exist. There is certainly a difference between the "White" experience of America and how everyone else experienced it (though I guess the Irish would disagree about that one, too), but at the end of the day, it is simply American culture, which in itself is a very broad term considering how different America can be just based on the different regions.

Edited by Swanpride on Sep 18th 2018 at 10:21:27 AM

The point is that it's fine to take pride in your heritage if you're talking about something like how you have German roots or French roots or Irish roots. Stuff like how your grandma still makes Sauerbraten just like how her mother used to make it back in Germany.

Heck, I'm a born American but my parents are from Taiwan and their parents are from mainland China. I still respect my Chinese heritage, criticisms of mainland China's gov't aside.

If someone is talking "white heritage"...that's a huge red flag.

Even in a period of low immigration I doubt very much that Eastern Europe didn't have any non-white people.

Edited by M84 on Sep 19th 2018 at 1:49:24 AM

Hell, even Sengoku era Japan had a black man who served Oda Nobunaga. That is why I roll my eyes when people try to pull the "historical accuracy" crap.