BoJack Horseman

Also, something I noticed:

Lance Bass was seen one this show, as a fish. Lance Bass is gay. So Lance Bass is a gay fish.

Is this a Fridge Brilliance kind of thing or just a coincidence?

edited 14th Aug '16 7:17:13 PM by Smasher

On episode 9.

...this show is great, but it's kind of hard to sit through because of how disgusting and pathetic Bojack is. He's a brilliant character but fuck is he horrible. He ruins everything he touches.

I'm still not over the end of episode 4. I'm not sure I can properly describe how cruel that actually was.

edited 15th Aug '16 3:41:03 PM by Draghinazzo

Episode eleven should be interesting then. People's sympathy for the character can really vary. I like that it's kind of up to an individual interpretation if he's worth pitying or not.

I certainly DO pity him, because it's very clear he became the way he did for a reason. I identify with Bojack in a lot of ways, like his self-consciousness, self-loathing, self-pity and loneliness...it's just that it makes me uncomfortable because you know, he's also an asshole.

That's great though. I think a lot of people have this rotten part to them that they'd prefer not to think about or even realize is there, and Bojack is great at making you think about that.

The dynamic between Mr Peanut Butter and Bojack is a good microcosm of that. Mr. Peanut Butter comes off as this annoying guy in the beginning but it turns out he's actually a pretty decent guy, and Bojack is kind of awful. The main reason Bojack hates him is because he doesn't understand how he can be so happy when life is so shitty (or that's how I read their relationship anyways).

I finished the first season, by the way.

"You're my hero". Well that was a surprisingly positive note to end the season on.

So I finished Seasons 1 and 2 of the show. Season 1, I thought was excellent. After the rough first three episodes, the remainder really sucked me in, and I love how so many elements, plot threads, and character arcs built up and formed out of little pieces throughout the season, and how subversive it could be, like the Red Herring of The Beast Buy receipt.

Season 2 though... Really felt like a let down. There was good in it (Yesterdayland, Still Broken The Shot, and especially Escape From L.A), and some funny jokes, but overall, it felt much sloppier. Chickens had a great premise with it's absolutely horrific world aspect, but the plot they used for it felt really lame and cliche. Lets Find Out was a clumsy mess where Mr Peanutbutter's resentment over the kiss came out of nowhere before resolving immediately despite his speech to Bojack, not to mention him acting ridiculously callous.

Kelsey being fired worked. Abe overshooting the movie out of spite was really forced and stupid (So Kelsey gets fired for insubordination. Understandable. Abe wastes money and time over his stupid pissing contest, and keeps his job?) and I felt it could have been handled differently to get Bojack to break down and run from LA. Diane crashing at Bojack's house was the nadir, and heavily damaged her character. It felt so out of character for her, and just made her look absolutely pathetic in a way that didn't feel right for her. And of course, She gets forgiven immediately. And Secretariat apparently being good despite the copious amounts of Executive Meddling and digital editing made no sense.

I really hate to be bitter about it. I still like the show, and it really sucks that Season 2 just didn't work for me. I am hoping that Season 3 will be an improvement, and I have hopes that Season 2 was just a rough patch.

Abe was an established Hollywoo director, while Kelsey was an indie unknown. It made sense that one's unprofessionalism would be easily forgiven while the other one's would be more scrutinized. It's not fair, but it makes sense.

And apparently the Emmys were this weekend and the show wasn't even nominated. What gives?

Can steaming only shows be nominated for Emmys?

House of Cards (US) and Orange Is the New Black have won a few, so yeah. Should've totally been up for Outstanding Animated Animated program for last few years at the very least.

I feel like this show is about me. I feel that, if I had the wealth and fame of Bojack, I would be just like him. I can console myself that I'm not as bad, but all the awful things he did are things I think I either did in a lesser form, or wanted to do very badly.

It comes down to my being love hungry, and selfish, and insecure.

Like Bojack, I'm getting better, little by little.

Bojack is a great main character in a way that few characters are, because he consistently skirts the line between being sympathetic and being completely heinous. Some of the things he does are so petty and cruel that it makes you profoundly uncomfortable and makes you wonder whether you can even care about him anymore, or even worse, you might look back on your own life and wonder if you'd have made the same choices or done similarly disgusting and pathetic things (although perhaps not anywhere near as bad) and find yourself relating to him. But this discomfort is somehow incredibly engaging because how complex it makes Bojack.

edited 14th Sep '16 9:48:44 AM by Draghinazzo

It helps that he's usually the first, or at least the second person to call himself out on it. He feels bad for what he does constantly. It doesn't excuse his actions, but internally he knows he's not getting away scot free with his actions.

Nobody thinks they're the bad guy at first, we just try to do what we can.

A certain review said that watching stories about someone who wants to be famous is harder after watching this series. I agree.

I don't know why anyone would ever want to be famous. I get wanting to be rich.

I think Bojack himself kinda explains that: he wants to be loved. In his head I think being famous equals him being loved by everyone.

But of course eventually he realizes that's not how it works.

It's exhilarating and horrifying how much BoJack has evolved through the series. More than any other series, the show shows him both getting better and getting worse, skirting the line between what should come off as simple Aesop Amnesia to keep the plot going and turning it into a Fatal Flaw. Yet he keeps coming back, hoping for a better ending, a better tomorrow. Goddamn it. Just out of curiosity, which character in Bo Jack Horseman do you think could go into the Pantheon and which? BoJack could be comfortable (well, not comfortable per se) in Sadness, Ambiguity and Personality. Princess Carolyn in Comerce and Craft, Mr. Peanutbutter in Love and Philosophy, Diane in Knowledge, Ambiguity and Sadness, and Todd in Quirks and Friendship. Well, it's just an opinion.

edited 27th Sep '16 8:57:10 PM by DougDevilsMutt

Finish the first three seasons.

Honestly I'm not sure if Bojack is a "Jerkwitha Heartof Gold" or a "Jerkwitha Heartof Jerk"

For example:

• He acts as a free host for Todd, but is revealed in the fourth episode that his reasons are ambiguously selfish and in fact Bojack sabotages him when he tries to thrive.
  • That is to say that his first "Pet The Dog" moment, is in fact a subversion.

• Although this is the Bojack version "Pre-character development", so I'm not sure.

As someone who's seen the show only up until midway season 2, Bojack is one of my favorite fictional characters partly because of the question you raised.

What I love about him is that he is a character that makes you feel conflicted. He has understandable reasons for becoming the person that he did, and he has humanizing moments of weakness and humanity, which can make it easy for people to sympathize with and identify with him...but then he is also capable of doing really cruel and horrible things, and has many other moments where he is disgusting and pathetic and that can make people feel uncomfortable for having related to him in the first place, or even more, relating to him MORE because he did those things because it reminds them of difficult choices in their own lives and makes them wonder if they would have done the same things he did. I think everyone has a darker part to themselves they don't realize or want to think about, and Bojack (the character and the show) is great at making you think about that.

In those regards he is a character who is constantly on the verge of breaking the Moral Event Horizon and to me at least it makes him extremely compelling, because he has just enough humanity for you to think he MIGHT be able to do the right thing, but you don't know whether he actually will or not. You definitely cannot say he is a predictable or generic character.

Jury's still out on that one. The fact that you can't really come down on it absolutely either way might be the point, actually, heh.

edited 15th Jan '17 9:31:49 PM by Unsung

Man, I just watched this show, and it seems like the most realistic adult cartoon out there. I thought I'd hate everyone, but at the same time, I felt too much pity for them to hate anyone.

Except for Mr. Rabbit Agent.

I love it when the good guys win.

What good guys?

I was paraphrasing the end of the third season episode where Rutabaga and Vanessa Gekko had a parallel plot with Bojack and Princess Carolyn over competing for a movie deal. The former two were the antagonists of the episode, but they were the "good guys" since they acted morally and had their shit together compared to Bojack and P.C.

edited 13th Apr '17 9:55:28 PM by GamerSlyRatchet