IHE
Seriously, what were the odds of this happening?
vicarious
Miyamoto Musashi
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Considering Tekken's popularity? Very high imo. I personally was expecting it to be Jin but there you go.
Edited by ReikoKazama on Jun 16th 2021 at 2:29:53 AM
FC: SW-1445-0294-1719/PSN: TekkenGirl4Lyfe/Currently playing: Fate/Samurai Remnant
Role Model
Non-zero. Remember part of the Tekken team has been helping develop Smash since Smash 4. Kazuya, Jin, and Yoshimitsu offered the best options for movelists. Several other fighting game series (SF, KOF) have been represented in fighters, and Virtua Fighter and Tekken already got Mii costumes/assist trophies.
Jin might be an Echo Fighter.
Anyone got any music tracks they're hoping make it?
Edited by wanderlustwarrior on Jun 15th 2021 at 11:31:26 AM
The sad, REAL American dichotomy
Best part was still Kazuya trying to give Kirby the volcano treatment only for him to float away.
IHE
Considering Tekken's popularity? Very high imo. I personally was expecting it to be Jin but there you go.Sure but to think the 2nd Bamco rep would be Tekken instead of the Tales series is very shocking for me personally.
Even though that's very feasible, especially if it's T3 Jin, I doubt Jin will be an Echo Fighter since there are no Echo Fighters as DLC yet.
Well I'm personally hoping for Moonlit Wilderness, Fallen Colony, Anger of the Earth, Heat Haze, & T3 Jin's theme. Otherwise, I don't really remember all that much about Tekken's OST.
Role Model
Bamco's E3 showcase in 10 minutes.
Possible fighter stand ins:
- Alex: K. Rool
- Azazel: Ridley
- King (II): Incineroar
- Paul Phoenix: Ken Masters
- Nina Williams: Zero Suit Samus
- Steve Fox: Little Mac
- Mokujin: Mega Man?
Edited by wanderlustwarrior on Jun 15th 2021 at 5:19:51 AM
The sad, REAL American dichotomy
Franchouchou Sponsor
Would anyone be interested in helping to add a section to the character bios for gameplay descriptors? (i.e. playstyle archetype, strengths and weaknesses, martial arts description)
Character Specific Page cleanup
Role Model
Some of those may change from game to game, depending on the character.
The sad, REAL American dichotomy
Franchouchou Sponsor
True, though we could also account for that by mentioning details across titles.
Character Specific Page cleanup
Role Model
I do think it's overall a good idea to do for this and other fighting games. And the characters might not change that much. It could help for choosing which characters one might like to play. Though it's not always a big factor for me.
I wonder, how do people usually choose their "main"?
The sad, REAL American dichotomy
Chun-Li was my first fighting game character so I tend to gravitate towards speedy/agile characters and Kick Chicks. Here, that feeling for agility attracted me to the always in motion Eddy.
Failing that, I see who's got Shock and Awe because I enjoy throwing around electricity.
Franchouchou Sponsor
I lab with characters i find visually appealing to see if anything clicks.
Ever since starting Tekken I've gravitated towards characters like Bob, Jin, Kuma, and Asuka
Edited by IkeaHan on Jun 21st 2021 at 12:03:07 PM
Character Specific Page cleanup
Franchouchou Sponsor
There's some entries over on Street Fighter that could be good for framework (unfortunately the rest of the series pages haven't been covered)
Other good examples:
Guilty Gear
Super Smash Bros.
Edited by IkeaHan on Jun 21st 2021 at 12:09:23 PM
Character Specific Page cleanup
Role Model
Because I like single-player and story, everyone gets at least a couple of matches, but I've noticed myself sticking to a "type".
The first fighting game I was exposed to was Mortal Kombat 2. I wanted to play Jax and Baraka, but after I actually got to play them, I realized I didn't care so much. Then the first fighting game I was really into was Soul Calibur 2. This was what started my interest in fighting games' stories, and as an extension of that the fighters' personalities and goals matter to me. Talim became my main in this game, because of her sweet but strong personality, and I was around her age at the time. Plus, I was a teenage boy playing fighting games, so... all of that led to me preferring female fighters with a bit of speed and a sincere personality, possibly with some tomboyishness or flirtiness (Seong-Mina and Cassandra). As far as archetypes go, I tend to prefer more "honest" styles... or (as a holdover from other games) stuff that lets me control what my opponent's options are.
Seen through the Smash Bros thread. I still need to watch the interview's video (embedded below), but Harada talks about how they got to 30% done on Tekken vs Street Fighter, but had to scrap it. It's a shame, since it would've been fun to have...
- Morrigan vs Eliza
- Chun Li vs Katarina
- Guile vs Paul
- Blanka vs a very offended Eddie
- Laura vs Christie
- Shaheen vs Rishid, two characters that were directly created to correspond to each other
- C. Viper vs Nina
- Sagat vs Fahkumram
- Oro vs Leroy
Asuka's "man hands" have bugged me ever since going into the wardrobe customizer and realizing they ruin every snapshot they're in.
Edited by wanderlustwarrior on Jun 21st 2021 at 3:28:24 AM
The sad, REAL American dichotomy
Core-A-Gaming cited in one video a Capcom developer, who said that Street Fighter characters had intentionally disproportionately large limbs so you could read their movements more easily. Wouldn't be surprised if it applied here as well.
Role Model
Re: gameplay descriptors, I think it's important to lock down what the archetypes and mechanics in fighting games are, and especially in a way that doesn't ignore 3D and non SF-inspired games. Here's some thoughts and broad terms, hopefully we can see what I mean. I've been looking at videos that describe the archetypes, but I still haven't seen one that does it to my liking.
- Well-Rounded
- Balanced
- Shoto
- Damage type
- Combo focused
- Gorilla/UNGA BUNGA
- Short Range
- Rushdown/Mix-up
- Unblockable
- Grappler
- Stubby
- Armored
- Mid Range
- Poking/Footsies
- Disjoint
- Long reach
- Long Range/Zoner
- Projectile zoner
- Trap Zoner
- Defensive
- Counter
- Turtle
- Bait and Punish
- Tank
- Hit and run / evasive
- Get-off-me / knockback/ring-out focused
Separately considered, mechanics:
- Meter/resource user
- Puppet (see: Zoner)
- Mimic
- Status effects
- Buff stats
- Disable options
- Stances
- Support/Used for assists (tag games)
Consider also attributes, but these terms don't cover everything:
- Offense/Defense/Movement tradeoff
- Body type
- Giant
- Small
- Unthrowable
Edited by wanderlustwarrior on Jun 22nd 2021 at 10:13:28 AM
The sad, REAL American dichotomy
Franchouchou Sponsor
Role Model
No. Some of these are known and defined types, but different people (including Salami and others) made different lists with different definitions and overlap, so I wanted to write my own list based on what fighters generally consider in various different fighting games. So I figured "these are types I've seen in various games, particularly ones I've played, from Smash, to Tekken, to Soul Calibur, MVC, Bleach DS, Soul Calibur, SF, Tatsunoko vs Capcom... etc., etc.
And of course, these aren't mutually exclusive.
You know you don't need to write out my name if you're the next comment immediately after mine, right?
Edited by wanderlustwarrior on Jun 22nd 2021 at 1:42:37 PM
The sad, REAL American dichotomy
Franchouchou Sponsor
Ppl keep doing it to me. Force of habit I guess.
Character Specific Page cleanup
IHE
It was a mistranslation according to this tweet.
I still think SF X T wasn't all that bad of a game.
Role Model
I just didn't find SFXT particularly fun, and I think I even got it for free. I'm just burned out on 2D fighting games. Too many wall combos in the tag games especially, just burned me out.
On that note...
Thoughts on my comment on that video?
Shoto = A character often designed to be average in terms of height, weight, mobility, and other stats, who has move inputs that are designed to be relatively easy to learn and execute, and has specific special attack tools designed to cover generally applicable scenarios in 2D fighting games, namely:
- An uppercut type move to counter an opponent's aerial approaches and use as a strong attack (a "Shoryuken"),
- A mid-height projectile attack for range and light zoning control (a "Hadoken"), and/or
- A horizontal physical attack to adjust spacing/movement (a "Tatsu"), and
- A *lack* of more uncommon situational tools or complicating mechanics that other characters may have.
Of course, because fighting game main characters are often trained professionals at fighting, it's only natural for them to wear martial arts clothing at least some of the time. But calling them all "shotos" would be akin to calling Sonic and Mega Man "Jump men".
Ironically, Smash Bros is designed around Shoto aesthetics and accessibility. So Mario, Luigi, and Doctor Mario all have a Shoryuken, fireball, and Tatsu (Tornado).
Edited by wanderlustwarrior on Jun 23rd 2021 at 11:35:35 AM
The sad, REAL American dichotomy
Inheritor of the Wing
The definition sorta changes from person to person, some people argue that they have to play to Ryu's aesthetics to the point of being an Expy while other definitions are as lenient as yours and only ask for the basic gameplay essentials (i.e. in Guilty Gear Ky Kiske would be a shoto since he's built around those basic moves, while Sol would stretch the definition since he has those moves and so much more going on.)
See also the Fighting Game Glossary's definition which discusses how Sagat meets the requirements but isn't one, or how Sakura may or may not be one.
...all that said, this seems more suited for the general fighting game thread given how general the line of discussion is. Despite what Smash players insist, the Tekken series has only ever had one shoto and it isn't Kazuya.
Role Model
It's Eddie Gordo, obviously Eliza, right?
tbh, I didn't know there was a general fighting game thread, and I'm reluctant to go there because tbh the general FGC can still be pretty toxic and I don't feel like going into new threads.
This one Youtube comment has convinced me that Alex gets hype for Kazuya because they're friends.
TIL: Tekken has sold more game copies than Street Fighter. Surprisingly it's trailing MK by 3 million. Less surprisingly, it's trailing Smash by even more than that. ...Of course, Street Fighter copies sold doesn't include arcade machine earnings, where SF II (and its variants) has grossed 5.3 BILLION dollars, not counting inflation.
Edited by wanderlustwarrior on Jun 24th 2021 at 10:31:38 AM
The sad, REAL American dichotomy
The Kazuya trailer tweet.
Tekken music in Smash, too, presumably!
EDIT: And embedded youtube video:
Edited by wanderlustwarrior on Jun 15th 2021 at 11:38:56 AM
The sad, REAL American dichotomy