DC Comics General

I mean you could do that but most writers can't seem to not throw everybody else under the bus

its like derailing lover interests

Writers are so insecure that people will question their choices that they have to deal with any third options

That would work and be a sensible thing to do, but DC wanting to go bigger means they wouldn't want the League to be tackling anything lesser than the end of all life in the universe too often. Serial Escalation would hit pretty quickly.

And that's generally a terrible idea because that just make people unhappy that a character was derailed. Meaning that even those who would have been fine with their choice otherwise will now have a problem with it. And those who would have had a problem with it in the first place will just have one more reason to hate it.
The best course of action is always to have the third option back off/ the character break up in a respectful, responsible way. This will not make all the shippers happy- nothing will, ever-but it would make it easier to accept as a natural thing that make sense as opposed to "The writer is trying to force this pairing down our throats!".

Edited by Smoker130 on Mar 30th 2024 at 1:33:47 PM

It is interesting, at least, because usually the problem with media is the antagonists and villains being largely forgotten in favor of Good Versus Good, Original Generation or Adaptational Villainy(Thor's enemy is Utgard Loki, not Loki Laufeyson!)

The solution requiring the least among of thought is just to reuse league/crisis villains, giving them a second chance as New Genesis/Orion/Mister Miracle/Big Barda villains. Nekron, Anti Monitor, Imperiex, Neron, Ultimate Monitor, Perpetua...leave out the ones too obviously tied to individual heroes like Doomsday, Superboyman Prime, Time Fly, Barbatos and Batman Who Laughs. When you run out of ideas/villains, cap off the series with a big Orion/High Father versus Darkseid fight and let it sit until you have more villains/ideas. The League(?)Titans(?), the pretty Earth elite don't get overshadowed, even though that shouldn't matter(GODS sometimes do more heavy lifting than a team largely made of mortals? The mortal victory is possible because other powers are also doing their jobs? What is the universe coming to?) because they are villains largely faced by the pretty Earth teams already. The New Gods still look like semi competent big goods though by stopping to cosmic menaces from menacing the universe again.

And if anyone wants to put minimal brain power into the operation, certain Society/League/Titans lend themselves to New Genesis crossovers. Wonder Woman ending up in the same place as New Gods due to both having trouble with The Ichor(hopefully renamed to something less stupid) makes a lot more sense than Orion butting into to The First Born business. Zauriel ending up alongside some New Gods when Asmodel starts acting up again, that could be some interesting drama. This shiny mother box ensures no amazons, Titans or monitors will save Donna Troy or Supergirl from Dark Angel this time, but New Gods to the rescue! That kind of thing, if done sparingly to keep it novel, could simultaneously build up different parts of the franchise.

Edited by IndirectActiveTransport on Mar 31st 2024 at 9:50:51 AM

Everyone complains about crossovers, and yet crossovers continue to make a lot of money.

I wasn't complaining about crossovers, I was proposing some that would make sense and referring to one that did not.

I didn't praise it, so I'll make it clear I had no problem with Dark Angel showing up to harass Supergirl. Even though Supergirl has nothing to do with Donna Troy it made enough sense with what was going on with Post Crisis DC and it let us see Dark Angel in a new light. She was trying to be a good guy, putting effort into serving a legitimate organization for the greater good, but she just wasn't good at her job, going from routine, to Drunk with Power, to Screw the Rules, I Make Them!. I didn't have a problem with Supergirl showing up during The Dark Gods arc either. It was supposed to be a global event, Supergirl helped sell that. The alien abduction was where things started getting confusing. I think that could have been handled better, since we're now discussing crossovers, but I wasn't complaining about them then.

...oh okay then.

Edited by IndirectActiveTransport on Apr 2nd 2024 at 8:49:35 AM

My comment wasn't aimed at you. I was speaking in a general sense.

It's not so much that crossovers make 'a lot of' money, the overall numbers are still puny compared to those of decades ago. It's just that they do 'a little bit less worse' than non crossover issues.

Honestly the day the direct market crashes forever is the day the industry can finally progress and not be held back by the archaic floppy release system why they prioritize single issue releases which exactly leads to the events fatigue we are experiencing.

About the only problem/cause for concern there is the consequences of what will happening to comic book stores if that occurs.

Dark Knights of Steel is getting a spinoff called Allwinter that focuses on Deathstroke.

"In Dark Knights of Steel: Allwinter, the snow falls thick, blood runs black, and color itself is only a distant memory. The legendary assassin Deathstroke stalks a frozen wasteland, killing for coin across a nation of ever-warring jarls. But when our murderer for hire finds himself cast in the role of reluctant guardian, will he fight to end the icy curse destroying his land or be consumed by the sins of his own dark past?"

Am I the only one who thinks Deathstroke doesn't work as an antihero?

Well its an arguable thing since his tenure as one goes way, way back.

He has been able to transition as either full or noble villain for decades now.

Tell that to his creator

Deathstroke is basically the result of his two creators - Marv Wolfman and George Perez - not being able to agree on what kind of villain he was supposed to be. Wolfman wanted him to be a likable Friendly Enemy / Noble Demon type who was less a villain and more a victim of circumstance and bad luck, basically like Piccolo from Dragon Ball kind of character. Perez wanted him to be a full-on villain, a scumbag whose "code of honor" was ultimately an excuse he used to weakly justify his selfish actions. So pretty much from the start, the character was ping-ponging back and forth between those two interpretations because you'd get shit like Wolfman writing Slade having lunch with Gar while Perez would draw Slade committing statuatory rape. After Perez left Teen Titans, Wolfman got his way and thus "noble" Slade generally became the predominant portrayal. But than after Wolfman left as well, things go a lot more messy and the ping-ponging got progressively worse and worse until Christopher Priest's Deathstroke comic more or less solidified "scumbag" as the portrayal they were going with from than on.

Honestly I don't see the issue here. It's an AU setting where's remained as a viking/barbarian warrior.

It's not like the main Dark Knights of Steel hasn't heroized villains, Poison Ivy there is a nature queen ruling over her own swamp/woods and is in love with Harley who there is a lowly jester, asking Harley to abandon her life in the kingdom so she can live in the woods with her as her queen.

And then Ivy proceeds to pick a fight and curb-stomp Wonder Woman, with Diana only surviving because Harley asked Ivy to be merciful.

I'm suddenly reminded that almost all of Diana's relevance in Dark Knights of Steel has to do with her snogging Zala, Kal's sister and the resident Supergirl expy, whenever they're together.

The other bit of relevance is her being the Princess of Themiscyra and its ruler after the White Martians kill Hippolyta while disguised as Lara. And very little is done with this too.

For someone who wants to be progressive, Tom gives his female characters remarkably little to do.

Edited by reppuzan on Apr 4th 2024 at 8:19:09 AM

He only cares about the female characters he himself likes. Which is why Ivy kicks Diana's ass, Supergirl has more plot relevance than her, and Harley is given excessive prominence and interactions with the EL court and other royals despite being a court jester.

Thinking about it, Allwinter at least has a chance to be pretty good since Taylor isn't writing it.

I don't care for Dark Knights of Steel but if three out of your four prominent female characters have something relevant to do, that's not a bad track record.

Never forget Deathstroke is a pedo.

Unfortunately thanks to Wolfman it's something we're stuck with. I'd rather that part of his interaction with Terra be dropped entirely for the good of both characters, but people keep fucking bringing it up.

Like I said it's not as if he's unable to write female characters, he just picks favorites and sticks to them.

Donna's barely done anything in the current Titans run he's writing.

The issue is people constantly bring it up cause it’s kinda the most fucked up thing slade did

Or well basically it’s part of Terra’s azula arc where nobody can accept she’s just evil so slades part in it has to be brought up

It’s like Donna being married to terry long …no can forget despite how we want too

Edited by FrozenWolf2 on Apr 4th 2024 at 1:21:12 PM

Yeah, it’s pretty fucked that Deathstroke slept with a teenager.

Even discounting this, I still see Deathstroke as a pathetic bum.

The most screwed up thing Deathstroke The Terminator did that can't be excused with him being paid to do it, otherwise following orders or being provoked. Take away Terra and Slade Wilson is still a jackass. I think that's the entire point of Christopher Priest's run. I barely know the character and know his own wife, mistress, daughter and son hate his guts. I know Cassie Sandsmark hates his daughter's guts and still says Ravager's above working for Deathstroke.

Dark Knights is an "elseworld", though. Slade Wilson can be a paragon of goodness there. You're free to reject it, but I personally liked Knight Templar Parent Slade from DC Super Hero Girls, fully aware it had no bearing on the main comic book setting. Tom Taylor's use of Diana as a plot device in the Krypton-Black Lightning conflict, to prop up three female characters I personally do not care for, does not make me want to read the story, but the narrative choice alone does not make me question Tom Taylor as a writer. Dark Knights wasn't pretending to be a Wonder Woman story. Superman, Batman and Black Lightning. At most I'd say it could be used as an argument not to give Tom Taylor a Wonder Woman book, which he hasn't.

Taylor is just following a trend DC set for the last six decades of her eighty year existence. Wonder Woman's creation and character trappings drew from the public domain but were not copied directly. She was to bring something new to comic books. Why then are half of her most prominent antagonists of the last six decades direct extracts from the public domain, with the other half owing their endurance to the Super Friends cartoon? Why is Doctor Psycho the only possible exception there? Why is her most prominent supporting cast member her boyfriend? Why is he followed directly by another public domain extract? For the same reasons the upcoming trinity of evil are an alien hostile to Superman, a rogue Batman robot and Amanda Waller. For over twenty straight years developing Wonder Woman as a character and a sub franchise wasn't a priority, and it shows. I'll tear into people writing or editing Wonder Woman's books over these things, but Batman-Superman-Black Lightning elseworld? I don't have any desire to read it, but it doesn't make me question his merits as a writer, or the sincerity of his professed political leanings.

Priest’s entire take on slade is he’s an asshole even his few good traits are horribly mangled by his amorality and pragmatic nature

Hell the one arc slade legit is trying to turn over his life … he is still basically forcing everybody at gun point

Outside of Priest’s wierd hang up on Damien it’s probably the best take on slade and his equally dysfunctional kids in years

Edited by FrozenWolf2 on Apr 5th 2024 at 6:31:38 AM

@ worst things Deathstroke did: Also up there IMO are skewering Ryan Choi and mailing his shrunken corpse to his nemesis Dwarfstar, and shooting Cheshire in the stomach while she was pregnant... after she just helped him in a massive way.

...Sweet Comic Book Jesus, why does anyone try to make him a sympathetic character? I mean, when you say (err, type) all that out loud...

I forget, did we ever see how Terra and Deathstroke started banging, who came on to whom?

'Cause, if Terra initiated it, you could maybe portray it as something Deathstroke did very reluctantly. Terra was, after all, both very powerful and very unstable - not the sort of person you want to piss off by rejecting their advances.